Old habits die hard: it’s not easy to change after a relentless 3-decades-long campaign of twisted hate. But is it really necessary to hound the man even beyond the grave they helped to put him in?
They just can’t stop
Published Friday, June 5, 2009 brain damage , fetus fetishists 53 CommentsTags: anti-choice terrorism, Dr. Tiller, hate rhetoric
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It must be the hate-high they just can’t quit.
Nice jesus-y site there. But that’s not the only one who can’t quite give up yet. I listed a few of them here yesterday.
(Hope that link works. I really need a preview function when I post. Just sayin’.)
It’s because they can’t help themselves. They’re addicted to hate.
Heh. Great minds think alike, eh, fern?
JAB: We have seen the enemy and it ain’t us.
fern hill – I think you might be onto something. There’s definitely a high generated by self-righteousness and indignance generated by this hate they purvey, and it’s even better when they get the circular reinforcement of others doing the same thing.
It’s their version of crack.
JAB – “Addicted To Hate” — that would be a good title for a book about the anti-choice *spit* “movement”
Good morrow, all!
“Addicted to Hate?” Of course. Just as certain emotions (physiological responses to certain thought patterns) produce specific outpourings of brain chemicals (excitement produces adrenaline, passion produces dopamine) hate feeds on its own brain chemicals, and the cybernetic loop reinforces the response, and then adaptation sets in. One gets acclimatized, and then requires greater and greater jolts to feel the rush.
Hate is the child of anger, anger is the child of fear, and fear is the anticipation of pain, and all these things (to quote Yoda) are the Path to The Dark Side.
These people hate anybody and everybody who will not submit to The Will of God. In that case, why don’t they simply convert to Shi’a Islam, and exercise themselves accordingly, since Islam is the Arabic word for submission.
Those who live by the sword, etc., etc.
They will not learn, because they cannot learn, because they do not value learning. I do not hate such people, I pity them. To live forever in the shadow of ignorance and hate…must be…what’s the word…oh, yeah, right…Hell.
Let there be light — CTzen
You might actually try reading what was written.
Good day.
What, you mean the part where he’s continually called “Tiller the Killer” and “murderer” and “sinner”?
“These people hate anybody and everybody who will not submit to The Will of God.”
And let’s not forget that they made their God in their own image, so you’d actually, ultimately be submitting to them.
Nuh-uh. Ain’t gonna.
Desley, if you got something specific to say, I suggest you speak up and get into the conversation. JJ don’t behead nobody until they really piss her off (at least, so far so good
).
As in: try reading what what written where?
And what fern hill said about preview buttons? Count me in.
Dear Delsey,
I did read what was written. Do you know what I read? I read a mealy mouthed attempt by someone who thinks they have to right to tell other people what to do with their bodies try to goad someone else into action.
That’s right.
Embolden by their “success” in instigating a whack job into killing Dr. Tiller, they are using subterfuge and backhanded concern in order to get someone to do it again. They want to be as gleeful about what happened as the Army of God ass hats but they can’t, because then the mask would slip and the majority or people who do not share their twisted view would see them for the authoritarian sociopath control freaks they are.
Any condemnatiion of violence is mere “palusible deniablility” when every thing else they write and all the other pictures they post continue to incite the hatred against men and women providing a legal and medically nescessary service.
Jill Stanek and anyone else who contiues to post about “Tiller the Killer” (and I feel ill just writing that), the name of the doctor taking over his practice and posts pictures of abortion clinics is admitting they want it to happen again and are going to continue to encourage people to violence.
Oh it might be wrapped in a thin “violence is wrong” veneer, but its the same old “who will rid me of this meddlesome priest” bullshit.
Next time, I hope the doctor or nusre or clinic work is armed or has an armed guard. And I hope they are the ones who get a head shot off first. IUt will be self defense and they will never be convicted.
Dr.Prole, George Tiller, whether or not you care to admit it, was a murderer. In God’s eyes, we all are murderers. According to 1 John 3:15, if you’ve ever hated someone, you’re a murderer.
“Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.”
You have the seed of murder in your heart already and God does not look on our outward behaviors, He looks on the heart. (1 Samuel 16:7) All sin is conceived in the heart, not in our actions.
“It is out of the heart that evil thoughts come, as well as murder, adultery, sexual immorality, stealing, false testimony, and slander.” (Matthew 15:19)
Therefore, Tiller was a sinner. So am I. So are you. And Jesus died as much for Tiller as He did for me. I don’t pretend to be any better than he was. Fact is, we all suck.
Tiller put himself in the grave. I’m not saying the person who killed him was in the right, because murder is always wrong. The person who murdered Tiller is just as much of a murderer as Tiller was. Period. But Tiller would have died regardless, just like you and I both will die one day. We all will. You can’t avoid it. The wages of sin is death.(Romans 6:23). Tiller sinned, and therefore death came to him because he sinned. Death will come to all of us because we have all sinned.(Romans 5:12)
Jesus said concerning some people the Jews thought were worse sinners, “Do you think they were worse sinners…? I tell you, no! But unless you turn away from your sins, you will all die too.”
As good as we like to think we are, God sees our every motive, secret thought, He knows every lie, and has recorded every idle word we speak. To God, even “all our righteous acts are like filthy rags.”(Isaiah 64:6)
God does not condemn us because we sin. We are already condemned.
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.(Romans 5:8)So that whoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)
Christ died for the ungodly. Christ died to save sinners. We are all sinners.
I see absolutely nothing hateful about saying that.
Yes, Desley, we’ve all heard about Jesus. Please spare us the sermons.
Some asshole killed a man, and you assholes did everything short of handing him the gun. All your mythology and bullshit won’t change that. So please, say you’re sorry (and mean it!) or piss off.
Sorry, Desley, but I don’t believe in your book. Lots of people don’t. And I don’t think we all “suck”. Know what I think sucks though? Forcing a 9-yr old girl to continue a pregnancy that will kill her. Forcing a mother of 3 to carry a doomed pregnancy that could kill her with sepsis, leaving her born children motherless. Forcing a woman to continue a pregnancy where the fetus has a condition that is not compatible with life and is causing it unstoppable, excruciating pain once the nervous system is developed. THAT sucks.
pedgehog,
With all due respect, if by disagreeing with something someone does -and being vocal about it- is inciting hate, I’m afraid that you are guilty yourself of inciting hatred against me by your words.
Dr.Prole,
I’m very sorry you don’t believe the word of God. But I’m pretty sure that if you took a long, hard, honest look at the contents of your heart you’d agree (however quietly) that, yeah….we really do suck.
We lie. We steal. We lust. We hate. We slander. We tread on other people to build ourselves up. We’re selfish. Self-centered, self-seeking, self-exalting, envious, jealous, greedy, etc. And even if we get self-disciplined enough to control our outward behaviors, the inclination to do these things is still very much present inside our hearts.
I think we both know that abortions are rarely ever carried out for those things you’ve mentioned. If those were the kind of reasons we allow abortions, abortion clinics would go out of business and women would be treated by their doctors.
But I don’t really feel like getting into this debate right now. I just wanted to be clear that it is not my desire or intention to incite hate against anyone.
“In God’s eyes, we all are murderers.”
Hold it right there, Bub! Do not shove your nasty and vindictive little diety in my face and tell me that I belong to your club because I won’t stand for it! Your bloodthirsty little god does not live in my world and neither do its fan club members, of which you appear to be one.
“I see absolutely nothing hateful about saying that.”
Trying to smear the rest of us with the same mud in which you wallow is not hateful? Fuck off.
“I’m very sorry you don’t believe the word of God.”
No, you’re not. You’re gloating. You think you’re “better than” somebody because they don’t believe the same as you.
“I just wanted to be clear that it is not my desire or intention to incite hate against anyone.”
Liar.
Yeah, those reasons are rarely the reasons women get abortions – that’s why LATE TERM ABORTIONS ARE SO RARE!!! And, as all with reasons, they’re nobody’s business but the woman and her doctor and possibly her family. Not yours, not mine – nobody’s business.
What a sad universe you live in, believing the worst about absolutely everyone. Well, you’re certainly entitled to your worldview. Just don’t go imposing it on me. Have a good day.
What Chimera said.
You might as well quote the Egyptian Book of the dead at me as the Bible – so far as I am concerned they are both wiorks of mythical fiction and amongtst the most immoral pieces of tripe ever written down.
I have no belief in your god (or any such creater, for which there is no evidence).
So seriously. Stop.
But since we are speaking of the Bible and abortion, let me inform you about Exodus 21:22 ….
Where is your god now?
Desley –
I did read your frenzied little Jesus-driven screed, and was consummately unimpressed. The only message I got from it was “Here’s yet another deranged anti-abortion freak who wants to continue down the rhetorical road that led to a doctor’s death… again.”
Get used to being marginalized.
Desley:
I gotta admire your courage, but I’m pretty sure you’re only feeding the fires…
Mike:
Since you bring it up, the Hebrew word yasa which is sometimes translated as “miscarriage” indicates a premature birth – it doesn’t indicate that the child dies in the process. In fact the phrase “yet there is no injury” can be applied to both the woman and the child.
‘Nuff about scripture, have a nice weekend all.
CTZen – There’s a definite chemical/hormonal response to extreme emotion, that brings on a “high”.
I’m not kidding when I say these people get an Indignance High, or a Persecution High — the chemical (it might be endorphins) is released when the flight or fight response is triggered. And when they can talk themselves into believing they’re persecuted or become outraged by something (like a woman daring to exercise choices about her own body), that triggers it.
That’s why they seem to be in a perpetual state of general outrage about “culture wars” — the thought that the world isn’t the way they want it to be translates in their minds to being against them, and that triggers that fight or flight response. Like most highs, its addictive.
Dr. Prole
Exactly — you would think that this would be a good time to ease off on the shrieking rhetoric. It’s clear to anyone with a functioning brain stem that Dr. Tiller was ultimately the victim of the non-stop campaign of fire-breathing hate he was targeted by. And yet for some reason, some of them want to keep it up. As if they could kill him again.
chimera
Beheadings are not my style, that’s real fundie stuff (whether the Islamic Taliban or the Christian Taliban doesn’t make much difference).
Desley
FUCK YOU!!! Don’t fucking spread your TERRORIST BULLSHIT here, douchebag.
pedgehog
They can’t. They’re not sorry Dr. Tiller’s dead, they’re just sorry they’re getting called out for their part in it.
Mike – Desley obviously believes in the “inerrant” word of the bible (and believes in the unsolicited spewing of same) — there’s no reasoning with people like that. It’s a mental illness.
Scary,
<Since you bring it up, the Hebrew word yasa which is sometimes translated as “miscarriage” indicates a premature birth – it doesn’t indicate that the child dies in the process. In fact the phrase “yet there is no injury” can be applied to both the woman and the child.
Uhm no. But thanks for regurgitating that bit of apologetics bullshit.
Sorry but a “miscarriage” is not a premature birth – I’ve had to try to comfort my wife through 2 of them, one at 20 weeks, so really, piss off with your nonsense.
Miscarriage and yasa have a very specific meaning and that passage is clear – it is only on the death of the mother (who, even until the early 20th century was the sexual property of her father or husband – yes, even as late as 1905 in Canada rape was a tort, not a criminal offense…but I digress) that warrants severe punishment.
This of course fits with the long held Jewish and even Christian (before the advent of ultrasounds) tradition that the soul did not enter the baby until it breathed its first breath after being born. This is why doctors used to spank newborns get them to cry.
But hey, why let history and facts get in the way of trying to pretend the words of your silly holy book don’t mean exactly what they say. For Christianity that is SOP…
JJ,
Yes, yes it is.
the most telling difference between the two sides is the body count. How many Pro-choice figures have been killed vs. the number of anti-abortion figures assasinated?
Seems to me that that the most radical the pro-choice side seems to get is asking for a rifle-range bubble around clinics to keep demonstrators at a safe distance, while the anti-abortionists keep murdering people.
And re the Exodus exerpt and all the translations and interpretations…even if it can be a little cloudy in meaning at that particular point in “teh book,” take a boo at Numbers 5: 16-31. Not only does their god apparently think it’s okay to force a woman to have an abortion, but the recipe for it is printed right there in black and white.
Anybody need a translation for the “water of bitterness that brings the curse?” It’s an infustion or decoction of tansy and pennyroyal, both abortificants, and both used as strewing herbs on the floors of common areas of buildings to keep down the dust (their oils, which are released when crushed, adhere to the dust and keep it heavy so it doesn’t float into the air) and invasive insects, since they’re also both insecticides. That would be the “dust on the floor” of the tabernacle that the priest puts in the water for the unfortunate woman to drink.
So don’t nobody tell me that “god doesn’t approve of abortions.” If you believe the bible is the literal word (or even the crypto word) of god, then god not only approves, he aids and abets!
Well, by that “logic,” everyone in the “pro-life” movement murdered Dr. Tiller, because I have never in my life seen the level of hate they aimed at him.
To paraphrase a character from my favorite sci-fi TV series, if the anti-abortion crowd stood in one corner of the country and hated with all their will, it could grow wings and fly around the world, reducing all abortion clinics (and Mecca, for good measure) to ash.
JAB – I second your logic and I submit that henceforth refer to her as Desley the Murderer. Not that we’re inciting hate or anything, no sir.
Rev – And really, the killings and bombings and anthrax attacks are just the most sensational examples of the ongoing campaigns of intimidation and, yes, terrorism, conducted by anti-choicers. If I was to compile it all, it would fill two phone-book sized volumes, with double sided pages.
It’s not just doctors they target, but clinic staff and escorts. Doctors are generally wealthy enough to afford some protection to their private homes — not so with clinic staff, so they’re right on the front lines of attack at all times. Clinic staff are relentlessly stalked and intimidated — fetus porn sent to their neighbours, businesses they patronize are protested, their relatives’ workplaces, even their kids are targeted at school… it just goes on and on and pukingly on.
The end result is that abortion becomes less accessible, because fewer people are willing to put up with this shit. So the terrorists win — they can’t do it legally, so they do it by intimidation and harassment, but the result is just as tangible as if a law were passed. The end result, less access, is the same.
The US has a federal law called the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act, but if nobody wants to work at the clinics, getting the fetus fetishists out of the doorways doesn’t really help, does it.
Chimera
God is in fact the world’s most prolific abortionist, always has been. But see, this is how it’s soooooo simple for these fucking idiots — if god decides to do it, it’s okay, and oh god thinking is so hard, but whatever.
JAB
The pinch is in. By their own book, no less. Very good.
Dr. Prole – Can you believe how out of touch with reality these people are? They really don’t get it, that the anti-Tiller advertising campaign they conducted was directly responsible for his murder — but they don’t see that!?? They’re either catastrophically retarded or liars and bullshitters.
Ugh, this past week has made me feel physically ill.
I’d call this “solicited” scripture-spewing, but let me know when you’re sick of this, JJ.
Mike:
If yasa means “miscarry”, then Genesis 1:24 says that God created all creatures dead, not alive. Esau apparently died as a fetus (Genesis 25:25) and God predicted that King Solomon would be stillborn (1 Kings 8:19). The same word is used in each of these texts. The only time it refers to a miscarriage is Numbers 12:12, when it includes the specific qualifier “dead”.
I’ve had to try to comfort my wife through 2 of them, one at 20 weeks, so really, piss off with your nonsense. I’m sorry to hear that. We’ve also been through miscarriages, one as recent as last month. I’m not sure, though, why having a miscarriage is grounds for you to tell me to piss off.
Fetus fetishists have no sense of irony. Scary Fundamentalist just won’t stop posting in spite of some regulars here asking or telling to stop.
Ahem. The title of this thread is They just can’t stop.
SF – I do believe that Mike told you several comments ago what he thought about your disingenuous and fake compassion. You may not be a fanatic like your buddy Desley, but you’re a zealot.
deBeauxOs:
You may not be a fanatic like your buddy Desley I’ll take that as a complement
If JJ wants me to shut up, she can ask. If you can’t tolerate me, I won’t stop by your echo chamber anymore.
The title of the thread is “They just can’t stop”. I’m sure that it’s in reference to hate. I challenge you to compare my posts to others on this thread and tell me where the hate is.
And here I thought compassion is the antithesis to hate…
“And here I thought compassion is the antithesis to hate…”
Actually, no. That would be indifference.
Bloody hell! Stupid tags!
JJ! Preview? Pleeeeeeeez???
“And here I thought compassion is the antithesis to hate…”
Actually, no. That would be indifference.
Indifference is the absence of hate, not the antithesis.
SF, antithesis is the juxtaposition of contrasting words or ideas to give a feeling of balance to a word or term, which is not necessarily the same thing as an antonym.
And how you interpret “contrast” and “balance” will depend a lot on how steeped you are in the emotional footprint of these terms.
I see indifference as not an absence but as a total and utter disgregard — it’s not that there is no hatred there, it’s that I don’t care if there is hatred there; if there is, it simply has no impact.
Indeed, indifference is the antithesis of all feelings of passion, including love and jealousy and lust, as well as hate. It’s the basset hound of the emotional spectrum.
Christ died for the ungodly. Christ died to save sinners. We are all sinners.
I see absolutely nothing hateful about saying that.
Then you need new glasses, because those of us who aren’t visually impaired can see it just fine.
You are, whether you like it or not, justifying the murder of an innocent man doing a compassionate service for women in need. That IS hateful. And I see absolutely nothing ungodly about telling you so.
George Tiller, whether or not you care to admit it, was a murderer. In God’s eyes, we all are murderers. According to 1 John 3:15, if you’ve ever hated someone, you’re a murderer.
Absolute BULLSHIT! Dr. Tiller didn’t do abortions out of hate, he did them because no one else was stepping up to the plate for women in serious, life-threatening trouble.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: Murder requires malice aforethought. No woman ever had an abortion for reasons of sheer malice, nor did any doctor ever do them for that reason. Therefore, abortion is NOT murder…but doctor-killing is. And so is the whole “wages of sin” justification.
Now begone, before someone drops a house on you.
Scary – I don’t care if people quote scripture as long as it’s in context with the discussion and they’re coherent about it.
When I refer to “scripture-spewing whackjobs” (or however I put it), I’m talking about the people who mutter and drool and jabber incoherently about God and Hell and Jesus and sin and Satan and blah blah blah. Like the army of god nut that shows up here occasionally and goes: “SAY THIS PRAYER! Oh Jesus, please forgive my wretched sins, for I am a sinner destined for the towering inferno of hellfire…” etc etc etc. That’s spittle-flecked scripture spewing.
You, on the other hand, seem pretty coherent, and that’s all I ask. Carry on.
deBeauxOs – Scary Fundamentalist is actually being pretty reasonable, so I don’t have a problem with him/her commenting here. He/she hasn’t said anything inflammatory or stupid (I’m looking at you, Desley) so let’s see what he/she has to say. I like input from reasonable people whose opinions don’t necessarily agree with mine. I enjoy having my ideas challenged, as long as it’s done in a rational way. I sometimes learn a lot from people who don’t agree with me.
Chimera – Sorry, I can’t do anything about WordPress software — I wish I could, sometimes it drives me batshit.
The lack of preview button is really irritating, but I can edit and close your tags.
EDIT: See? 8)
JJ – it is your site, after all.
Scary Fundamentalist has a tendency to show up in a couple of the places I comment and our own blogsite so the concern troll schtick is starting to wear thin from my perspective.
deBeauxOs – I don’t mind it, all opinions are welcome here as long as they’re not too spittle-flecked or dragging things down with bad-faith debate. If we didn’t have someone contrarian showing up once in awhile life would get a little boring.
JJ: Ooooooh! thanks for the edit. I had no idea you could do that. WordPress doesn’t have the capability of previewing comments? Bummer. It would make things sooooo much easier for everyone if they did.
Well, that just means you’ll have to be more careful before you hit the “submit” button, Chimera.
Yeah, well, there is that, too, JAB. Accuracy’R'Us! Or not…
Problem for me is, with dyslexia, I can’t always tell if the tags are right until I see their effect in a preview. When letters and symbols that resemble one another that closely are all grouped together, sometimes they all look alike to me.