Must-watch Maddow

Tonight, Rachel Maddow interviewed Tim Phillips, the head of “Americans for Prosperity”, the scumbags who go around the country bullshitting about health care reform at the behest (and probably on the payroll) of the private insurance lobby (and who enlisted our own Shona Holmes to shit all over Canadian healthcare in one of their commercials).  Maddow totally destroys this sleazy, slimy douchebag, and how sweet it is!

Part 1:

Part 2:

GodDAMN!  W00T!!!

63 Responses to “Must-watch Maddow”


  1. 1 burpster Thursday, October 15, 2009 at 9:40 pm

    That guy makes my skin crawl. Rachael was right in the fact that these people are parasites. It has nothing to do with average Americans and healthcare, but they have the luxury of being forgiven for their greed every Sunday. Fuckin’ hypocrites! A pox on all their houses.

  2. 2 The Anti-Social Socialist Friday, October 16, 2009 at 7:44 am

    Maddow is great and she is spot on, but I don’t really see how she destroys him.

    He slides through with the easy grace of any good scum with a well-oiled sleaze gland, all smiles and defensive I’m-the-victim-here talk.

    She gets her point across, but it doesn’t matter – We know what he is, but anyone who supports him will believe him and not hear her, except when she takes the bite out of him. And then they’ll shriek about that alone and ignore the other facts and hidden funding.

  3. 3 JJ Friday, October 16, 2009 at 8:10 am

    burpster – He reminds me of one of those sleazy car salesmen you see on late-night TV… eww. Oily, greasy, sleazy, slimy little fuck. And obviously with a history of being that way.

  4. 4 JJ Friday, October 16, 2009 at 8:16 am

    Antisocial – I think she pushed the envelope about as much as one can without the discourse disintegrating into personal insults — a lefty Bill O’Reilly (if there could even be such a thing) would have been screaming at the guy to SHUT UP, calling him a liar etc.

    What she destroyed was any pretense that this guy is anything but a slimy huckster, and I think she did a great job of dismantling the notion that his organization is “grassroots”.

    But as you say, she is preaching to the converted for the most part. Most wingnuts just won’t get it. The few that do get it will likely think it’s perfectly okay that this guy is an insurance lobby pimp :shock:

  5. 5 The Anti-Social Socialist Friday, October 16, 2009 at 8:27 am

    Related Topic:

    http://thinkprogress.org/2009/10/16/dawn-smith-cigna/

    This is what Americans for Prosperity are for.
    AFP: Protecting the All-American right to be denied health care.

  6. 6 JJ Friday, October 16, 2009 at 9:24 am

    Antisocial – UGH! What a disgusting story! How the fuck can anyone be in favour of letting these slimeballs continue to get away with this shit!!?? :evil:

  7. 7 CK Friday, October 16, 2009 at 5:02 pm

    “Getting fat on America’s fears”. Exactly how buffoons like Rush and Glenn make their millions. Many ignorant uneducated Americans living in fear & tea-baggers chanting ‘thank you’ Glenn while those two are yucking it out to the bank, much like those so-called ‘grass roots’ people on the Maddow show.
    Maddow is dead-on: parasites.

  8. 8 Jasper Friday, October 16, 2009 at 5:33 pm

    The Mad cow is at it again, she and Olberdork should get married, she can be the husband.

  9. 9 Jasper Friday, October 16, 2009 at 5:43 pm

    CK,

    I’m tired of you calling me (us) uneducated. I’m 42 like you with a successful career that doesn’t rely on taxpayer money, unlike yourself. We make our money from creative innovation and hard work, not sitting on our behinds, soaking the taxpayer and working a 9-3:30pm job.

  10. 10 The Anti-Social Socialist Friday, October 16, 2009 at 6:23 pm

    Mad Cow?

    Yea sure buddy. Go and complain some more about how your bestest friend Orly Taitz is being persecuted by the Liberislahomofacist media.

  11. 11 JJ Friday, October 16, 2009 at 7:08 pm

    CK

    Maddow is dead-on: parasites.

    It was impressive. You could see how upset she was, but she maintained and made the guy look like the sleazy little pigfucker that he is.

    She’s supposed to be doing a recap on it tonight, I’ll have to see if I can find it on Youtube.

  12. 12 JJ Friday, October 16, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    Jasper – Where do conservatives get this lame idea that they’re the only people in the world who WORK for a living? They squawk and bitch about it so much, it almost sounds like they HATE WORKING.

    What do you do, Jasper? I know it can’t be in tech since I had to show you how to make a hyperlink. What is this thing you do that’s so successful and creative? The fine art of Jaspering?

  13. 13 JJ Friday, October 16, 2009 at 7:26 pm

    Antisocial – OMG, could Jasper be a Birther, on top of everything else? :lol:

  14. 14 Phatbiker Friday, October 16, 2009 at 8:27 pm

    Yep, bet he believes the earth is 6000 years old, global warming is a myth and this is the “end times”.:)

  15. 15 JJ Saturday, October 17, 2009 at 7:21 am

    Phatbiker – I don’t know… Jasper says he’s Catholic, which makes him a heretic in the eyes of those who believe in the end times, the rapture, young earth creationism etc.

    Catholics are much more reasonable than that. They only believe that an elderly, foppishly-dressed virgin male wearing a hat that resembles a giant bejewelled cunt has a direct hot line to God.

  16. 16 Jasper Saturday, October 17, 2009 at 9:24 am

    JJ,

    I’m a support engineer for a company that manufactures semiconductor equipment, some of our customers are AMD, Intel, IBM, etc. Our machines most likely had a role in making the CPU and memory chips inside of your computer or blackberry.

    You really don’t have to be an HTML expert to do what I do.

    JJ, why you dissing the Pope? he does not think he has a direct line to God. Pope Benedict is an incredibly wise man who speaks many languages and is very compassionate. Remember, the Catholic church is one of the leading charatible organizations in the world.

  17. 17 Janus Saturday, October 17, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    “I’m tired of you calling me (us) uneducated.”

    Yeah, right, buddy. If you’re so damned educated, how come you don’t know basic grammar?

  18. 18 The Anti-Social Socialist Saturday, October 17, 2009 at 4:45 pm

    Because ensuring that AIDS spreads to all corners of the globe by banning condoms is an A+ in fucking compassion.

  19. 19 Cornelius T.Zen Saturday, October 17, 2009 at 4:51 pm

    Good morrow, all!
    Good to see Jasper is back.
    It appears that cogent communication is also not part of the job description. Jasper, try running your replies through SpellCheck and GrammarCheck before you submit a reply. The very semiconductors that you build can make you APPEAR to be a better writer.
    When the Pope grows a pair, and routs out the pedophiles in his ministry, he will have earned whatever respect Jasper feels he deserves. Hasn’t happened yet, not likely it ever will.
    1st Corinthians, Chapter 13 – CTZen

  20. 20 Jasper Saturday, October 17, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    “Because ensuring that AIDS spreads to all corners of the globe by banning condoms is an A+ in fucking compassion.”

    Anti-Social Socialist,

    Strongly Christian Uganda continues to frustrate condom-pushing NGO’s by maintaining its abstinence and fidelity AIDS prevention programs and one of the lowest rates of AIDS in Africa, at 4.1%. Uganda’s population is listed by the CIA Factbook as 33% Roman Catholic and 33% Protestant.

    Of African countries with low Catholic populations, Botswana is typical with 37.3% AIDS, one of the highest in Africa, and 5% of the total population Catholic.

    Cornelius,

    Is that all you’re good for? throwing insults around? I though you were smarter than that. You can do better!

  21. 21 Sister Prole Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 7:01 am

    @ Jasper “Is that all you’re good for? throwing insults around? I though you were smarter than that. You can do better!”

    This from the person who refers to Rachel Maddow as “Mad Cow”. Spare us your sanctimonious bullshit and go away. You may have better luck finding converts to your medieval authoritarian religion at the mall or something. Try the airport, used to work great for the Hare Krishas.

  22. 22 The Anti-Social Socialist Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 7:33 am

    33% Protestant, eh? Isn’t ah, the Protestants the Catholics who USE CONDOMS?

    Also:

    “The drop in HIV prevalence in Uganda in the 1990s cannot be attributed to a single factor. It is likely to have been a result of both a fall in the number of new infections (incidence), and a rise in the number of AIDS-related deaths.”

    “It is likely that the number of new HIV infections in Uganda peaked in the late 1980s, and then fell sharply until the mid 1990s. This is generally thought to have been the result of behaviour changes such as increased abstinence and monogamy, a rise in the average age of first sex, a reduction in the average number of sexual partners and more frequent use of condoms”

    “Much of the prevention work in Uganda occurred at grass-roots level, with a multitude of tiny organisations, often made up of people living with HIV educating their peers. These groups worked to break down the stigma associated with AIDS, and encourage a frank and honest discussion of sexual subjects that had previously been taboo.”

    So if you look at this, then look at other factors that happen in, say America itself… You will notice that sexual relations do NOT decrease in places that push Abstinence. However, it is quite easy to see that any places that educate the people on the dangers of HIV/AIDS and promote condom use have am amazing impact.

    As Uganda has shown.

  23. 23 Jasper Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 9:09 am

    condoms! condoms! condoms! the solution to the world’s problems!

    …how short sighted can one get.

    Dr. Prole,

    cool down, I’m not perfect either.

  24. 24 JJ Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 9:09 am

    Jasper – Sorry dude, I wasn’t dissing the Popester, I was dissing his hat and its hideous implications.

    When men who are obsessed with the reproductive practices of women wear hats that look like female genitalia, it looks suspiciously like uterus-envy :P

    There is one thing I respect about the Pope, and that’s his stand on environmental issues. It’s a weird thing for a religious leader to speak out about, but Pope Benny has done so many times and rather eloquently, as I recall.

    Also, he forgave Ted Kennedy, despite pressure from many of his underlings not to.

    But then there’s his stance on contraception, and the Church equating pedophilia with homosexuality… awful :evil: But I shan’t go there right now.

  25. 25 JJ Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 9:15 am

    Janus

    If you’re so damned educated, how come you don’t know basic grammar?

    Sadly, basic grammar is no longer a prerequisite for success in the world. Our generation (I’m assuming you’re my age) was probably the last one to be taught the importance of grammar, spelling and math. Calculators, then computers with spellcheck, made these basic skills unnecessary & obsolete. Which is too bad, because if nothing else, knowing them keeps your mind sharp.

  26. 26 Cornelius T.Zen Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 9:20 am

    Good morrow, all!
    Jasper – I do not throw insults around. I aim them very carefully. Accurancy is hitting the target once. Precision is hitting the target consistently. Precision rocks.
    What the “insurance” companies do is simply indefensible. The only reason they can continue to do so is with the implicit compliance of government regulatory agencies. In words that even Jasper could understand, “The fix is in.” These companies own enough politicians, very much as the trusts of the early 20th Century did. Without the fix, these companies would have to compete fairly in the open market — which is precisely what they cannot and will not do.
    To stand in defence of these companies is to serve evil. Period.
    There is a civil war going on, that has been going on for ages. The rich vs the poor. Why do you suppose those people in New Orleans were abandoned? If they had been white, wealthy, and voted Republican, the entire US military would have been engaged in rescue and rehabilitation. But if you’re poor, visible minority and vote Democrat, you’re trash, and best left to live or die as fate would allow.
    It is the same with healthcare reform. Cui bono? The lower middle and lower classes would have access to healthcare and not be bankrupted by costs. *gasp* We cannot have that! They must not have the same healthcare access and privileges as wealthier people. They must continue to be suppressed. They must not EVER get the idea that they are equal to rich people. They must know their place and keep it. March on Washington! Hands off My Medicare! How dare they try to make things better!
    History is written by conservatives. History is MADE by radicals.
    Embrace a future that works. Ad Astra! – CTZen

  27. 27 Dr. Prole Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 9:29 am

    Heh, I’ll say you’re not perfect Jasper. You can’t even see the truth staring you in the face, you accuse people of playing the race card while using the term “black savages” and defending a man who BEAT UP A WOMAN, you swallow Rush Limbaugh’s ideological load on a regular basis and brag about it, call me and others here “Satanic”, and you call the smartest, nicest woman on television a “mad cow”. Oh, and then there’s the public shaming that you advocate of women who use their legal right to terminate a pregnancy (for reasons that are clearly none of your goddamn business). And then you tell JJ she needs to get laid. Among other things. You’re a fucking nutcase. No wonder Nurse Stanek loves you so much – birds of a feather and all.

  28. 28 JJ Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 9:32 am

    Antisocial – That’s one of my biggest problems with the Catholic church, they’d rather let people die (and spread AIDS) than admit that in the real world, it’s difficult to get people to practice abstinence.

  29. 29 JJ Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 9:36 am

    Jasper

    condoms! condoms! condoms! the solution to the world’s problems!

    No, not the solution to all the world’s problems, but definitely a good running start at tackling two of them: disease and unwanted pregnancy.

  30. 30 JJ Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 9:39 am

    Prole

    I’ll say you’re not perfect Jasper

    Indeed. It looks like Jasper may have skipped Mass this morning to surf the web. Naughty. Naughty. Pope Benny would not approve.

  31. 31 JJ Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 9:41 am

    CTZen – You always express your ideas so well, and so ZOT-on, there is little I can add. Once again, well said.

  32. 32 Reality Bites Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 9:57 am

    “I’m tired of you calling me (us) uneducated”

    Sorry Jasper, but it’s no longer considered politically correct to call you a fucking retard as we would have in days gone by.

    We can still, hoever, thanks to your public fellating of the Pope, call you a Nazi-loving shithead.

  33. 34 Jasper Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 11:08 am

    Cornelius,

    did you know that medicare denies more claims than private insurance companies? Also, the Democrats are now the pary of the rich, not republicans, where have you been? it’s not thye 60’s any longer.

    “Heh, I’ll say you’re not perfect Jasper. You can’t even see the truth staring you in the face, you accuse people of playing the race card while using the term “black savages””

    Did you see the story I posted about what these savages did? You’re damn right they are savages. No mention of it in the media because it was a black on white crime, if the roles were reversed, we wouldn’t hear the end of it.

    “and defending a man who BEAT UP A WOMAN”

    no I didn’t

    “you swallow Rush Limbaugh’s ideological load on a regular basis and brag about it, call me and others here “Satanic””

    Sorry.

    “and you call the smartest, nicest woman on television a “mad cow”.”

    She is a hateful, smug woman who speads liberal propaganda.

    “Oh, and then there’s the public shaming that you advocate of women who use their legal right to terminate a pregnancy (for reasons that are clearly none of your goddamn business).”

    ternimating a pregnancy is murder. and it is my business if other humans can be legally murdered.

    “And then you tell JJ she needs to get laid. Among other things.”

    sorry.

    “You’re a fucking nutcase.’

    no I’m not.

    “Sadly, basic grammar is no longer a prerequisite for success in the world. Our generation (I’m assuming you’re my age) was probably the last one to be taught the importance of grammar, spelling and math.”

    You may know how to spell, but you all get an F in comprehension.

    why are liberals such an obnoxious bunch, I can’t imagine they have many friends, who would like them. Nobody wants to be around a smug ass.

  34. 35 fern hill Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 11:37 am

    Then what are you doing here,Jasper, hanging around with a bunch of smug asses? Elite, good-spelling-and-grammar-using smug asses to boot? Go back where you belong.

  35. 36 JJ Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 11:50 am

    Jasper

    You may know how to spell, but you all get an F in comprehension.

    How so? What are you trying to say that you feel has been misinterpreted?

    Look Jasper, if you insult people, they’ll return fire. That’s just the way the world works. Especially around here 8)

  36. 37 JJ Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 11:53 am

    fern hill – Jasper is a moderator at Nurse Stanek’s Sweet & Sour Fetus Grill. Apparently the commenters over there are too boring :P what a surprise :shock:

    Jasper! I saw a nice convo over there on Friday about PUNISHMENT for abortion. What a bunch of fascist freaks… glad to see you were not in on that one.

  37. 38 fern hill Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 12:05 pm

    So he comes here for the rush of insulting lefties? Being insulted by lefties? Maybe he’s into PUNISHMENT? ;)

  38. 39 JJ Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 12:31 pm

    fern hill – They’re all into PUNISHMENT, but usually just for other people.

    Whaddaya think, Jasper? Got a longing for the lash? :shock:

  39. 40 The Anti-Social Socialist Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    “did you know that medicare denies more claims than private insurance companies?”

    Did you know that with Universal Health Care NO ONE GETS DENIED?

    “Also, the Democrats are now the pary of the rich, not republicans, where have you been? it’s not thye 60’s any longer.”

    How many oil companies back the Democrats, again?

    And I think you mean ‘It’s not the early 2000s anymore.’

  40. 41 Jasper Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 4:31 pm

    “Did you know that with Universal Health Care NO ONE GETS DENIED?”

    You’re right Anti, they do not deny anybody care, they send a person home who needs a bypass with a couple aspirin.

    Anti,

    Remember, Stalin was not a good amn.

  41. 42 Jasper Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 4:33 pm

    “fern hill – Jasper is a moderator at Nurse Stanek’s Sweet & Sour Fetus Grill. ”

    JJ, now look at what you just said, do you realize that you are mentally ill? You’re sick and you need help.

  42. 43 toujoursdan Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 5:08 pm

    Well, Jasper is correct that Medicare denies more claims than private health insurance but he didn’t post the reasons which render the claim meaningless.

    For Medicare the 3 top reasons (accounting for more than 50% of denials) are: 1) improperly completed paperwork, 2) submitting a claim for a procedure not covered under Medicare and 3) making a claim for a procedure covered by another insurance company account. (Many procedures are covered by different agencies/companies and paperwork is often submitted to the wrong one.)

    In contrast the number 1, 2 and 3 reason for a denial of claim by the private insurance companies are: 1) pre-existing conditions, 2) the coveree took too long to submit all the paperwork or 3) it part of the coveree’s deductible (which can be for thousands per procedure). (See Metrics 12 and 13 link below)

    Medicare has to take everyone even if they have pre-existing conditions. Medicare also pays 98% of the claims they pledge to pay. For private insurance companies it is in the 60-80% range.

    The claim Jasper makes comes from this study: http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/368/reportcard.pdf

    Now, keep in mind that Medicare must cover everyone in a specific age and demographic range. Private insurance companies can reject or cancel anyone they want. And the gulf becomes even larger.

  43. 44 Reality Bites Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    Clearly you’re not able to provide that help Jasper, and are indeed deliberately provoking what you consider to be her irrational outburts.

    What a sadistic, pathetic little fuck that makes you Jasper.

  44. 45 toujoursdan Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 5:35 pm

    It’s also funny that Jasper calls Democrats, which are disproportionately Black and Hispanic, the party of the rich.

    But he may be on to something. Most of America, including the the urban upper middle class and younger rich class left the Republican Party once it was taken over by the right-wing religious lunatics. Only about 21% of Americans are willing to admit they are Republican, and they tend to be right-wing fundamentalists.

    But this shift hasn’t stopped Republicans from doing the bidding of big business.

  45. 46 toujoursdan Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 5:38 pm

    Finally, Uganda isn’t really much of a success story. The government’s statistics have been questioned for a long time. Uganda’s infection rate may not be all that different than Botswana’s.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3677570.stm

  46. 47 JJ Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    Jasper

    JJ, now look at what you just said, do you realize that you are mentally ill?

    Oh, settle the fuck down. It was the good nurse herself that gave me the idea when she posted about the Chinese dining on “sweet and sour fetus”.

    So you’re suggesting that Nurse Stanek is mentally ill? And in other news, the sun rose in the east today.

  47. 48 JJ Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 5:49 pm

    toujoursdan – Beautiful. Excellent takedown 8)

  48. 49 JJ Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 5:56 pm

    RB

    Clearly you’re not able to provide that help Jasper, and are indeed deliberately provoking what you consider to be her irrational outburts.

    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    He’s trying to bring me to Christ.

  49. 50 JJ Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 5:58 pm

    Jasper

    You’re right Anti, they do not deny anybody care, they send a person home who needs a bypass with a couple aspirin.

    You can’t possibly believe that. Is that what they’re telling you down there? OMFG :roll:

  50. 51 Bleatmop Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 6:05 pm

    “Nobody wants to be around a smug ass.”

    There is enough irony in that statement to knock the earth off its orbit.

  51. 52 Bleatmop Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 6:09 pm

    JJ – “You can’t possibly believe that. Is that what they’re telling you down there? OMFG :roll:”

    I believe he is intentionally saying stuff like that. He is a poor excuse for a human being. Only a troglodyte would intentionally mislead the people who need universal health care the most to believe that private health insurance is the cure to their problems.

  52. 53 The Anti-Social Socialist Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    Really, Jasper?

    Well, my 20-year old co-worker happened to be the 1-in-ten-thousand cases where his yearly run-of-the-mill flu turned into something that caused his heart to enlarge by nearly three times the normal size.

    He had fluid in his lungs, heart failure and several other wonderful bonuses to the condition, and this while he was only 18 years old.

    Into the hospital for care for very nearly a full year, had a state-of-the-art pacemaker installed and will have to spend the rest of his life going in for bi-yearly checkups and the occasional replacement of his pacemaker. He’s part of a program up here in Canada that has wireless Bluetooth monitoring of his Pacemaker – if anything happens, there is anything unusual that occurs with his heart, there is a phonecall placed directly to him – if he doesn’t answer or if he is in distress, an ambulance is sent right to his position.

    Tell me, Jasper of the Phenom Stupidity, does that sound like the kind of Health Care that gives you fucking aspirin in favour of a quadrupal bipass?

    I’d also love to work out just how much that kind of service cost to any American, and just what their health insurance would provide. I know what it cost him here in Canada – SWEET FUCK ALL.

  53. 54 Jasper Sunday, October 18, 2009 at 11:08 pm

    Anti,

    Sorry about your co-worker, that is awful…. That is great idea with the Bluetooth monitoring, our private insurance cover it as well.

    toujoursdan,

    Medicare is going bankrupt. The solution to the US heathcare is the free market, we need to be able sell insurance across state lines. Note: If Medicare were a private insurer, it would be illegal in many states for failing to cover hearing aids, podiatry, acupuncture, chiropractic care, marriage counseling, aromatherapy and gender reassignment surgery.

    Democrats; new party of the rich:

    http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed110607a.cfm

  54. 55 toujoursdan Monday, October 19, 2009 at 5:29 am

    Medicare is going bankrupt because your hero George W Bush passed Medicare Part D, which gave lots of money to the pharmaceutical companies, but didn’t appropriate the fund to actually pay for the program. It just proves that your wonderful Republicans love their services as much as Democrats do, but they fund them using credit, instead of actually paying for them. Republicans certainly live up their reputation as the “borrow and spend” party.

    Secondly, if you expect me to agree with a commentary from the right-wing Heritage foundation, you need to have your head examined. This commentary is correct in that nearly everyone who has an education and lives in an urban area is deserting the Republican Party because of their right-wing religious nonsense, but it fails to mention the fact that the entire Republican agenda is to give more money and power to big business.

    Note: If Medicare were a private insurer, it would be illegal in many states for failing to cover hearing aids, podiatry, acupuncture, chiropractic care, marriage counseling, aromatherapy and gender reassignment surgery.

    Bullshit.

  55. 56 toujoursdan Monday, October 19, 2009 at 5:41 am

    And a free market solution to healthcare means higher costs, more people left out in the cold, more denied care and more personal bankruptcies. There is no “free market” incentive to take care of very sick people at an affordable rate. The only free market incentive is to compete for healthy people and drop them once they become liabilities.

    Free markets are fine for neighbourhood restaurants or for the sale of consumer items like TVs, computers and cars, but they fail miserably in the delivery of essential services to everyone fairly and equally.

    The problem with the current brand of Republicans is that they have become such ideologues that their only solution to everything is the application of the same ideology whilst ignoring all the problems that it causes. They are no different than the Breshnev-era ideologues who were sure communism would succeed even as the Soviet Union was collapsing around them.

    The problem with ideological communism and free market capitalism is that both assume that people always act in a rational and predictable manner. But that isn’t the way human beings and human societies work.

    It’s just a substitute for nuanced and pragmatic thinking which takes more work.

  56. 57 RealityBites Monday, October 19, 2009 at 6:28 am

    “He’s trying to bring me to Christ.”

    He’s bringing a lot of people to Christ. Everyone who reads his excretia exclaims, “Jesus Christ, what a knob!”

  57. 58 The Anti-Social Socialist Monday, October 19, 2009 at 8:12 am

    “That is great idea with the Bluetooth monitoring, our private insurance cover it as well.”

    No doubt it does. How MUCH does it cover?

    A woman in California required a new pacemaker. When they questioned how much it’d cost, they were told $58,000. They had private insurance though…
    So they only had to pay $10,000.

    They essentially had to purchase a small car for a critical and necessary device.

    My buddy had to pay nothing. NOTHING. Do you understand you pillock? NOT A THING. He didn’t have to take out a loan, didn’t have to put his mother under even more stress than she was to try and dig up the cash. It was paid for without question, without worry and without stress.

    Blake’s alive and well, he isn’t in debt beyond what he did to buy his truck, and his mother, while still a nervous wreck about the ordeal, is not in the loony bin for having that happen to her son AND having to dig up an impossible amount of money for a single-parent family.

    A amount of money that would strain even two adults both with full-time work.

  58. 59 Jasper Monday, October 19, 2009 at 8:13 am

    “And a free market solution to healthcare means higher costs, more people left out in the cold, more denied care and more personal bankruptcies.”

    You don’t understand simple economics. Having more competion in the health insurance industry will drive down costs.

    You could fix 90 percent of the problems with health insurance by ending the federal law allowing states to ban health insurance sales across state lines. But when John McCain called for ending the ban during the 2008 presidential campaign, he was attacked by liberals.

    In some states, one big insurer will control 80 percent of the market. (Guess which party these big insurance companies favor? Big companies love big government.)

    You want to protect consumers? Do it the same way we protect consumers of dry cleaning, hamburgers and electricians: Give them the power to tell their insurance companies, “I’m taking my business elsewhere.”

  59. 60 Dr. Prole Monday, October 19, 2009 at 8:27 am

    Give them the power to tell their insurance companies, “I’m taking my business elsewhere.”

    Yeah, like to the government run plan that has 3% overhead instead of 30%+, and doesn’t boot you off when you actually get sick and need to go to the doctor! I’d rather 97% of what I pay in go to actual care instead of bonuses and spa retreats for executives. I mean, if you want 30% of your premium to go towards some asshole-in-a-silk-suit’s gold-plated toilet, you can keep your awesome, expensive private plan, Jasper.

    Health care is a hell of a lot different than hamburgers (ahem, ever hear of the FDA?) and dry cleaning. I see you’ve been reading the Heritage Foundation’s propaganda and believing it, sucker. Free market theory has been the only game in town for health care in the US with the exception of Medicare, and look at the disaster it’s wrought. NEWS FLASH: NOT WORKING. Sounds good on paper but your masters at Heritage never seem to factor in actual human behaviour – like greed and lust for power. Duh. You’re a sucker, Jasper. Your corporate masters are laughing all the way to the bank as you attempt to spread their lies for them. How does it feel to be such a tool?

  60. 61 toujoursdan Monday, October 19, 2009 at 9:05 am

    I was trained in economics. That what I got my masters degree in. So I do think I understand it.

    You don’t understand simple economics. Having more competion in the health insurance industry will drive down costs.

    Assuming more competition exists and this doesn’t turn into another oligopoly (which would eventually happen in a true free market condition – look at everything from the banking to the retail sector), competition would ONLY drive down the costs for the people who these competitors CHOSE to insure.

    It doesn’t do anything to help the pool of people no one wants to insure: those who are poor and can’t afford premiums, those who have expensive, chronic conditions, and those who are unprofitable for insurance companies at any cost structure.

    You continue to confuse the voluntary purchase of a consumer item with a person’s health. The latter condition being involuntary and beyond the ability of an individual to ignore. This completely changes the balance of power between an individual and these company. The individual doesn’t have free choice in that they can hold off and wait for something better to come along, or choose not to buy anything at all.

    If you are sick and can’t pay out of pocket, you MUST get insurance, but in a free market, no insurance company MUST step in and ensure you. They have all the power. You have none.

    You could fix 90 percent of the problems with health insurance by ending the federal law allowing states to ban health insurance sales across state lines. But when John McCain called for ending the ban during the 2008 presidential campaign, he was attacked by liberals.

    No. This would create mega corporations who would further distort the market by keeping smaller companies from getting a toehold in the market and growing. We already see this happening in other industries.

    In some states, one big insurer will control 80 percent of the market. (Guess which party these big insurance companies favor? Big companies love big government.)

    See above.

    Big companies only like big government when they can co-opt it to advance their interests.

    Thirdly, allowing insurance companies to sell across state lines doesn’t change anything here. Instead of one insurance company controlling 80% of the market, you’ll have an oligopoly of 3 or 4 controlling 99% of it.

    You want to protect consumers? Do it the same way we protect consumers of dry cleaning, hamburgers and electricians: Give them the power to tell their insurance companies, “I’m taking my business elsewhere.”

    Again, what if no business wants you?

    Secondly consumers can’t take their business elsewhere like they can with dry cleaning, hamburgers and electrician (again confusing consumer purchases with something that is not a consumer item).

    For most American workers like myself, your health insurance company is selected by your employer based on the savings your employer gains, not whether your needs are met. Consumers have no choice. I can’t tell United Healthcare to piss off and sign up somewhere else and expect my employer to continue to pay their portion of the cost. It doesn’t work this way. Consumers have never had choice in this matter. It’s big business helping big business.

    And again, none of this addresses the people outside the pool.

  61. 62 toujoursdan Monday, October 19, 2009 at 9:39 am

    If you want the Jasper/Republican vision of the health insurance industry you need only look at the American banking industry.

    When the laws against banks having branches in more than one state were dropped, it led to less competition, not more. Through mergers and acquisitions, and big banks using their economies-of-scale to squeeze out smaller competitors, most of the community and regional banks went extinct. The banking lobby used their political influence to clip the wings of their real competition, the credit unions, who were able to provide similar services for much lower fees.

    So is America a banking paradise where we get great service with low fees? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! No. We have an oligopoly of banks that nickel and dime customers, engage in risky practises with our money, and which we have seen are able to hold the American government hostage when they get into trouble.

    That is the Republican vision of healthcare. Applying the same principles that led to disaster again.

    Free markets are fine on a microeconomic level. They are a disaster on a macroeconomic level.

  62. 63 Bleatmop Monday, October 19, 2009 at 4:17 pm

    toujoursdan – Your analysis reminds me of this 5 types of government video.

    We can have a republic or a oligarchy. We can have a oligopoly (free market) or a controlled market governed by laws. There is no middle ground. It makes me feel sad for my brothers and sisters south of the boarder that they have chosen to give the power of money to the few instead of the many.


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