Arrrgghhh… it burrrrrns.
Grabbing a ride on the right-wing Outrage Train over the Obama Administration’s decision to try alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in a criminal court in New York City rather than a military tribunal, Friday night Palin added her — oh I don’t know, two? cents worth, on Facebook, of course!:
Horrible decision, absolutely horrible. It is devastating for so many of us to hear that the Obama Administration decided that the 9/11 terrorist mastermind, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, will be given a criminal trial in New York. This is an atrocious decision. [...]
It is crucially important that Americans be made aware that the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks may walk away from this trial without receiving just punishment because of a “hung jury” or from any variety of court room technicalities. If we are stuck with this terrible Obama Administration decision, I, like most Americans, hope that Mohammed and his co-conspirators are convicted. Hang ‘em high.
Hang ‘em high! Bring ‘em on! Oh Dumb SaWah, “Georgie in a skirt” in so many ways.
The Obama Administration made the right call. Trying KSM as some badass “soldier” in a “war against America” would only raise his stock with his fellow jihadists and validate their demented cause. Trying him as a criminal marginalizes him.
Trying him in New York City probably isn’t doing him any favours either, as far as jury selection goes. (Ya think!?) It would be a complete fluke if he managed to draw a jury that included anyone who wasn’t totally devastated by his handiwork that day — “hung jury”? Is she kidding? The only thing that might work in KSM’s favour is the fact that he was waterboarded over a hundred times, which a sharp lawyer could say mitigates his confessions. (And who’s to thank for that sorry situation? Hint: not the Obama administration.)
But even with that, the prosecutor is obviously confident that the chances of this guy walking are so small as to be infinitesimal, and that justice will be served, as it has been in the past. The red-faced, spittle-flecked outrage is, as usual, totally contrived, and Palin is, as always, on Stupid Alert Level “RED“.
(via TP)
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The right-wing would of bitched if Obama gave them all military tribunals, they probably would of bitched if he just had them shot. The right-wing would have bitched no matter what Obama did, because they just hate Obama and want to be obstructive.
That’s why Obama should ditch this “bipartisanship” BS and just ignore the creeps. They’ll hate whatever he does, no matter what. Just because.
I wonder how many of the Furiosi would have demanded on 9/12 that the accused be brought to New York City “to face the damage they did”…if Bush had suggested it, of course.
Palin’s shameless pandering to the vilest impulses of the stupidest Americans is not surprise, and in fact we should applaud it. Let her marginalize herself as much as she can.
There are trials in which juries do as they’re supposed to and only convict if the case is proved “beyond a reasonable doubt.”
There are others in which they will only acquit if there is actual clear proof of innocence. I can’t imagine any circumstances under which they’ll acquit.
The GOP is scared shitless that their dirty laundry (aka torture, which is illegal) is going to be hung out to dry with these trials. You can’t use information gained through illegal means (aka torture, which is illegal) as evidence.
However, I highly doubt these trials would be happening unless there was an otherwise airtight case. So, win-win – the terrorists get found guilty, and Bush and Cheney’s illegal official torture program gets the spotlight. God how I long to see the day when those two are doing a perp walk in orange jumpsuits.
I’d say KSM has a good chance of being set free:
KSM has been held without trial for 6 years. Under civilian law that is a clear violation of the Constitution (under civilian laws).
By the current presidents and attorny generals own words “waterboarding” is torture, so any and all evidence from that is inadmissible in court as you can not torture or even rough question a suspect. This is not to debate waterboarding, but simple to show a cause for being acquitted.
Any and all evidence collected prior to KSM getting read his rights is inadmissible. Since he was held by Pakistan prior to be turned over to the US. He might have been tortured. He did not get a chance to challenge his deportation. He was held without charge…
God, I love Sarah Palin. A straight talking strong woman, boy did America miss out on a real leader, unlike the wusses and pussies who occupy the white house now.
“Americans cannot comprehend how their fellow countrymen could not love their country. But the left’s anti-Americanism is intrinsic to their entire worldview. Liberals promote the right of Islamic fanatics for the same reason they promote the rights of adulterers, pornographers, abortionists, criminals, and Communists. They instinctively root for anarchy against civilization. The inevitable logic of the liberal position is to be for treason.” — Ann Coulter
Jasper, a word to the w…well, a word, anyway: when trolling, it’s important not to LOOK like you’re trolling. At least pretend to contribute something adult to the discussion.
So Jasper you ready to put on some boots and a uniform and go fight Sarah’s I mean God’s wars? Put your money where your mouth is, chickenhawk. Get off your computer and go defend your freedoms. Bring Ann with you.
LOL @ describing Sarah “word salad” Palin as straight talking. Bwahahahaha!
Dr Prole,
My father fought in WW2, my brother in Vietnam, my sister an I served for 4 years each during the 80′s, it was mostly peace time but thats not my fault. I would certainly serve if I could today if they would still take a 42 year old.
I’m pretty sure they will.
Prior Service Enlistments
The age limit for prior service enlistment for most of the branches is the same as above, except that an individual’s total previous military time can be subtracted from their current age. For example, let’s say that an individual has four years of credible military service in the Marine Corps and wants to join the Air Force. The Air Force could waive the individual’s maximum enlistment age to age 31 (Maximum age of 27 for the Air Force, plus four years credible service in the Marines).
For the Marine Corps and the Marine Corps Reserve, the maximum age of enlistment for prior service is 32, after computing the prior-service age adjustment.
For the Army and Air National National Guard, the maximum age for prior service enlistment is 59, as long as the member has enough years of prior service to be able to complete 20 years of creditable service for retirement by age 60.
See ya!
Jasper is partly right in that a moral jury should certainly take into account the circumstances in which he is being brought to trial. He may be very obviously guilty. But if they convict him, it will likely be due to evidence gathered through immoral means.
Mandos, I believe there was likely plenty of evidence legally gathered before KSM was waterboarded 180+ times. They would use that to convict him.
There’s a very good thread on this matter at Pandagon. Particularly pay attention to the comments by Jesurgislac.
So indeed it is quite possible that in order to support the rule of law (far more important than any individual prosecution), it may be very difficult to convict KSM. Either that, or the judiciary is no longer interested in supporting the rule of law.
Thanks, Mandos! It’s going to be very interesting indeed to see how this shakes out.
balbulican – The Furiosi! Instant classic
Of course not, it’s no surprise at all that the rightwingers responded this way, and even less of a surprise when she went along for the ride.
When I saw her “Hang ‘em High” quote, I thought YESSSS! She couldn’t possibly frame herself better, in my view, than as Georgie in a Skirt. That is just what the majority of USians want in the White House, after 8 disastrous years of the real thing.
RB
No jury would acquit.
They have more than enough evidence, uncovered through other means than torture, to get a conviction. I would not be surprised if the evidence they got from the torture sessions wasn’t even presented, because it’s compromised.
There was apparently lots of incriminating evidence on his computer hard drive — none of the information was even encrypted, quite a lapse in security for a movement supposedly big and organized enough to take over the world
Dr.Prole
Don’t hold your breath.
The interrogations are definitely part of the reason the GOP is screaming about the trial, but you know what, it wouldn’t really matter what Obama did about this because they’d scream about it anyway. Just because.
Jasper
So you know better than the AG and prosecutors, eh?
You make some good points about the torture sessions and inadmissible evidence, but why do you think that’s all they’ve got? They wouldn’t be having this trial if they weren’t sure of getting a conviction.
If you’re so worried about the evidence that they got while they were torturing the guy, you should be dumping on the Bush-Cheney crowd, they’re the ones that authorized it.
I’m surprised you have so little faith in the American justice system. It’ll be interesting to see what the wingnuts have to say after the trial is over and these guys are on Death Row. But by then, the GOP will probably have imploded.
ETA: Please spare us the Ann Coulter quotes. She’s a completely unserious person.
Mandos – It’s true that if the letter of the law was followed, there’d be a chance of acquittal — based on the torture issue, compromised evidence etc.
I can’t believe that the prosecution has doesn’t have more than the information they got him to admit while he was tortured. I seriously don’t think they’d risk going to court with nothing but compromised evidence — they’d hold a military tribunal. They’re not opposed to military tribunals, obviously, since some other terrorist suspects are getting those instead of trials. There’s more here than meets the eye.
But if not, then what will happen is that KSM probably won’t get an exactly “fair” trial, in the strictest legal terms. In this particular case, it’s debatable whether that’s a step closer to the abyss or the first step away from it.
Jasper I think you’re underestimating the people making the decision. Whether you like the politicians involved or not and think their wusses or whatever you have to remember they are still politicians.
They all possess a certain level of craftiness and knowledge of legal systems. I don’t think they made this decision lightly, as JJ pointed out trying them this way makes them less a matyr if they’re convicted through the proper trials.
I doubt sincerly they would have made this choice if they did not believe him to be found guilty easily. You Catholics talk a big game about faith, how about you show some now and again in people you don’t like?
And come now you honestly think Liberals are anti-american or is that just the Ann Coulter dribble talking? Different views to what YOU think is right or what you’re told is right does not make it anti-american.
Why don’t you say in your own words what you think. No quotes, just think about it and type out what you actually think if you can.
I’m sure Jasper would like to give us his own thoughts, but unfortunately he doesn’t have one of those newfangled computers that accept crayon input.
JJ – Ann Coulter is a stand-up comic and heavy-handed satirical writer, who attempts lame spoofing but falls short of the benchmark that Jon stewart and Stephen Colbert have established.
Shade – That’s absolutely right — the prosecutors wouldn’t be doing it this way if they thought there was a chance of acquittal. The outrage is manufactured.
The real concern is that the trial might not follow the letter of the law — for starters, how do you find an unbiased jury in NYC (or anywhere else for that matter, but especially there)? But I don’t think anyone cares.
These guys will either get executed (bad decision because it makes them martyrs) or preferably, rot in Supermax for the rest of their lives. Either way, they won’t see daylight again.
About the unbiased jury – I doubt his guy considers New Yorkers his peers either, but whatcha going to do? His defense attorney will have the opportunity to take part in jury selection to ensure the most fair trail possible. No trial is perfect.