Why do fetus fetishists hate the free market?

As US health care reform lurches forward like a ’72 Datsun with rusted piston rings and cancer of the quarter-panels, the final skirmish focuses on, what else, abortion:

On Friday night, as the clocked inched toward midnight, lawmakers in the House Rules Committee hearing room were arguing loudly over various provisions of the big health care legislation. But the real fight was going on in the office of the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi of California, who tried mightily – and ultimately failed – to bridge a bitter intra-party disagreement over the issue of health insurance coverage for abortions.  […]

In the end, Ms. Pelosi decided that abortion opponents would be allowed to offer an amendment to the health care bill that would impose tight restrictions on abortions that could be offered through a new government-run insurance plan and through private insurance that is bought using government subsidies that the legislation would provide to moderate-Americans to help them afford health coverage.

This has been an issue all along with anti-choicers who don’t want “their tax dollars” funding abortion — something the Hyde Amendment already addresses, but that’s not enough.  This week, anti-abortion Democrat Bart Stupak leaped on the opportunity to blackmail his own anxious party by proposing a sleazy pig of an anti-abortion amendment (endorsed by the Catholic Bishops — so much for separation of church and state).  The Stupak amendment not only blocks abortion coverage by the public option, but also in some cases by private insurers.  Why do fetus fetishists hate the Free Market?:

In a last-ditch effort to corral 40 anti-abortion party members whose votes are needed to pass health care reform, Democrats last night agreed to let the whole House vote today on an amendment that would bar insurers participating in the new government-run health care exchange from providing abortions except in the case of rape, incest or to protect the mother’s health. It would also prevent people who receive federal subsidies from buying private insurance that covers abortion.

These restrictions might cause private insurers to opt out of abortion coverage altogether in order to be more competitive — meaning that under health care reform, women will have less reproductive choice than before.   Smart.  Anti-choicers know it’s not necessary to overturn Roe v Wade or even kill more doctors:  restrict access enough and pretty soon we’re marching on a road of bloody coathangers.  Hey, at least they’re consistent.

Except when they’re not!  Following the same absurd standards and “6-degrees-of-separation-from-abortion” logic behind the Stupak amendment, it appears that even Focus on the Family might be funding abortion:

But are those pro-life organizations holding themselves to the same strict standard? As it happens, Focus on the Family provides its employees health insurance through Principal, an insurance company that covers “abortion services.” A Focus spokeswoman confirmed the fact that the organization pays premiums to Principal, but declined to comment on whether that amounts to an indirect funding of abortion.

But that’s different, I guess.

UPDATE: Digby on “Human Sacrifice”

I suspect that the leadership decided that abortion was the least important thing they could throw to the slavering Blue Dogs to take home as a victory over the liberals in this debate. And they had to find a hippie to punch to make the thing acceptable to the villagers, so they decided to punch the desperate pregnant girl. She’s used to it.

75 Responses to “Why do fetus fetishists hate the free market?”


  1. 1 Jasper Saturday, November 7, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    “(endorsed by the Catholic Bishops — so much for separation of church and state). ”

    JJ,

    separtion of church and state does not mean the church has to shut it’s mouth. Unless you live in Cuba…or Canada…

  2. 2 JJ Saturday, November 7, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    Jasper – This is more than just giving a sermon — they’re sticking their noses right into government policy-making. That shouldn’t be happening. The government is supposed to make policy according to what the people want, not what the Vatican wants.

    Hopefully someone will challenge their tax exempt status.

  3. 3 JJ Saturday, November 7, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    Also — Nothing to say about Ms.Prejean? 😆

  4. 4 Jasper Saturday, November 7, 2009 at 1:40 pm

    “Jasper – This is more than just giving a sermon — they’re sticking their noses right into government policy-making. That shouldn’t be happening. ”

    why not, the bishops are citizens as well, they don’t have to be silent.

    “Also — Nothing to say about Ms.Prejean?”

    I’m disappointed in her, do you know if this was a recent porn film that she did?

  5. 5 J. A. Baker Saturday, November 7, 2009 at 1:53 pm

    Jasper, this isn’t a theocracy (yet). The church doesn’t get veto power over other people’s freedoms.

  6. 6 Phatbiker Saturday, November 7, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    Is it just elective abortions they won’t fund or all abortions including the medically necessary ones? If the latter they really are fuckin’ bastards.

  7. 7 Jasper Saturday, November 7, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    Phatbiker,

    abortions are never medically necessary. The proper way is to protect the life of the mother and the baby, this doesn’t have to involve killing the baby, ever. Maybe a premature delivery or c-section would be necessary..

  8. 8 Phatbiker Saturday, November 7, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    Jasper,

    “abortions are never necessry” so your a fuckin’ doctor eh! Would demand that a women would have to give birth to one of these http://www.nurple.com/sideshow/p3.html . Any fetus that fucked up should be aborted asap. That’s what late term abortions are about.

  9. 9 croghan27 Saturday, November 7, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    Jasper …. nice of you to give us a lecture on the ‘proper way’ to do anything.

    Without even considering that you are insulting both lumps and tissue and babies by pretending a foetus has a life outside that of its’ host, I can think of a lot of lives that would be ruined by the acquisition of a child at what they consider the wrong time: there are matters of incest, sexual assault and maintenance of life style (what does a 16 year old HS student do with a child?)

    If you want a proper way …. try a medical decision for an abortion or not depending upon consultation between the pregnant one and her doctor.

    Certainly any Bishop may make comments upon any subject they wish – I personally would like to see more about the obscenity in Afghanistan. But when they speak with the authority of the Church and attempt to influence legislators with that authority – then they should keep their mitres to themselves.

  10. 10 fern hill Saturday, November 7, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    ‘Abortion is never medically necessary’ is one of the foundational lies told by fetus fetishists.

    Every pregnancy is blissful and problem-free.

    Yeah. Right.

    Pregnancy kills a woman a minute.

  11. 11 Jasper Saturday, November 7, 2009 at 4:01 pm

    Fern,

    That BS, baby killing is never, ever necessary.

    “there are matters of incest…”

    not the babiess fault

    “sexual assault”

    not the babiess fault

    “and maintenance of life style”

    not the babiess fault.

    “(what does a 16 year old HS student do with a child?)”

    deliver it. this is no reason to kill a baby.

    PREGNANCY IS NOT A DISEASE.

    “If you want a proper way …. try a medical decision for an abortion or not depending upon consultation between the pregnant one and her doctor.”

    No, us pro-lifers will stand for legalized murder.

    “But when they speak with the authority of the Church and attempt to influence legislators with that authority – then they should keep their mitres to themselves.”

    so what? they are not endorsing any candidate. We will not shut up, like I said, the US is not socialized/communist Canada or Cuba, we have freedom of speech.

    PhatBiker,

    get help.

  12. 12 Phatbiker Saturday, November 7, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    Your the one that needs “help” jackass!!

  13. 13 The Anti-Social Socialist Saturday, November 7, 2009 at 4:40 pm

    “We will not shut up, like I said, the US is not socialized/communist Canada or Cuba, we have freedom of speech.”

    Really? You say this when George W. Bush was corralling all those protesters into neat little ‘protest zones’ three blocks away from himself and any of his events so he wouln’t have to listen to them.

    Whereas communislamofacinazihomobabykiller Obama did nothing to protesters walking around with firearms.

    Hmmmmmmmmmmm… it seems like the socialist has protected the FoS far more than the Republicans have!

    Despite Obama being a fucking capitalist just like you are, you pillock.

  14. 14 J. A. Baker Saturday, November 7, 2009 at 4:43 pm

    we have freedom of speech.

    But you don’t have veto power over women’s freedoms.

    Not that that will stop you from trying.

  15. 15 fern hill Saturday, November 7, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    babiess?

    Jasper is frothing. Extra s’s = spittle.

  16. 16 Dr. Prole Saturday, November 7, 2009 at 5:23 pm

    Frothing? Probably just drunk again.

  17. 17 Cornelius T.Zen Saturday, November 7, 2009 at 5:23 pm

    Good morrow, all!
    Yes, the US has “freedom of speech.”
    Jasper has every right to adhere to his philosophy, that women exist solely for the pleasure of men, and that bearing children is their only socially acceptable function in life.
    In Jasper’s world, there is no domestic violence, no rape, no incest, no deadbeat dads, no abandonment, no crack babies, no seals, no thalidomide monsters, no venereal disease.
    Jasper has every right to say whatever crawls through that maggot-ridden organ that pulsates between his ears. Every right, as guaranteed in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
    You see, if we discriminate against Jasper, we prove him right.
    However, WE have every right to point out the fallacies and inconsistencies in his arguments, and his paucity of understanding many of things that we better educated people take for granted.
    Jasper, do us all favor. The English language is a marvellous tool for communication. You should learn it sometime. Who knows, you might find it come in handy. While you are at it, study history, too. You bleat about traditional values.
    “Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. ” Siddhartha Gautama, the Buddha
    Let us know the next time you adopt a crack baby.
    Good night, and may your God go with you – CTZen

  18. 18 Jasper Saturday, November 7, 2009 at 6:24 pm

    “But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”

    Cornhole,

    Is supporting this conducive to the good and benefit of one and all?

    You listen to budda and I’ll listen to Jesus.

  19. 19 Cornelius T.Zen Saturday, November 7, 2009 at 7:13 pm

    Good morrow, Jasper!
    Who do you suppose Jesus listened to Himself, before He began His ministry?
    You still haven’t quite got the spelling of my name quite right yet, Jackassper, but I’m sure I can forgive you.
    After all, that is what your Boss told us to do, right?
    Good night…and you know the rest – CTZen

  20. 20 Janus Saturday, November 7, 2009 at 8:54 pm

    “…baby killing is never, ever necessary.”

    A fetus is not a baby.

    “PREGNANCY IS NOT A DISEASE.”

    Spoken (screamed, actually) by a male entity who has no chance of being subjected to it, never mind against his will.

    That’s like a bricklayer’s insisting to an onion farmer that roses are not weeds.

  21. 21 Jasper Saturday, November 7, 2009 at 9:13 pm

    Janus,

    You are in denial.

  22. 22 Janus Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 6:58 am

    Awwwww…is that the best you can do? 😆

    Or are you trying to tell us that you can get pregnant?

  23. 23 hemmingforddogblog Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 7:22 am

    Good argument Jasper!!!!!

  24. 24 JJ Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 7:34 am

    Jasper – Congratulations the healthcare bill. Now we wait for the bodies to start hitting the ground, eh? Grandma first! 😆

  25. 25 JJ Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 7:42 am

    Phatbiker

    “abortions are never necessary” so your a fuckin’ doctor eh!

    Jasper has clearly never heard of ectopic pregnancy.

    Of course, he’s Catholic, and they really don’t care. I don’t have to remind anyone what those evil bastards in Brazil tried to put that little 9 yr old girl through.

  26. 26 JJ Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 7:44 am

    JAB

    The church doesn’t get veto power over other people’s freedoms.

    They got pretty close yesterday.

  27. 27 JJ Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 7:50 am

    Croghan – Bishops have every right to comment as individuals, but as we saw yesterday, they also use their influence to impact policymaking, and that is absolutely unacceptable.

    You’re right though, it’s interesting that they don’t use the same kind of influence wrt Iraq and Afghanistan as they do to making sure womens rights are curtailed by the new healthcare bill in the states.

    I am SO GLAD to be Canadian.

  28. 28 JJ Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 7:54 am

    Antisocial

    Whereas communislamofacinazihomobabykiller Obama did nothing to protesters walking around with firearms.

    Can you imagine what Dick Cheney would have done to any anti-war protester who showed up at a Bush rally packing an automatic weapon? 😆 Gitmo!

  29. 29 JJ Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 7:58 am

    Janus

    Spoken (screamed, actually) by a male entity who has no chance of being subjected to it, never mind against his will.

    That’s always who knows best, someone who’ll never be in the position 🙄

    I’m getting pretty sick of uterus-less entities who think it’s their calling to force women to be incubators.

  30. 30 Jasper Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 9:07 am

    JJ,

    We scored a big victory yesterday, no federal funding for baby killing will happen in ‘Health care reform’. Go Bart Stupak! my favorite Dem.

    “Of course, he’s Catholic, and they really don’t care. I don’t have to remind anyone what those evil bastards in Brazil tried to put that little 9 yr old girl through.”

    oh yea, the abortion was a lot better JJ. So now, she is violated not once, but twice. Good Job libs!.

    And since when do you people care about statutory rape? with all the Planned Parenthoods cover-ups of rape? so the they can make an extra buck. Haven’t you been following Lila Rose???? we didn’t here a peep out of you. Now tell me again JJ, who are the real evil basterds here?

  31. 32 Janus Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 10:49 am

    I’m thinking it’s time to start educating women about how to go about doing their own abortions. Not with surgery and technology, but with everyday, common herbs.

    You’d be surprised how easy it is to induce an abortion. And how safe it can be, without the interference of protesters and anti-choicers.

    And how completely PRIVATE.

  32. 33 The Anti-Social Socialist Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 10:57 am

    “Not with surgery and technology, but with everyday, common herbs.”

    I’ve heard of this, I think it was referred to as ‘moon tea’ or somesuch, though I have no idea what it contained. Apparently it was a very common method of controlling family sizes before the age of manufactured contraceptives or pills.

  33. 34 Cornelius T.Zen Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    Good morrow, all!
    So, the theocrats are dancing in the streets.
    “We stopped the queers! We stopped abortion!”
    I guess their next step is taking the vote away from women, then maybe restoring segregation in schools and public buildings, and finally, the restoration of slavery. Hmm…there’s a thought…round up all the blacks, and illegal latino immigrants, and auction them off to wealthy white landowners.
    The South done rise agin!
    You only wish I were kidding…
    The lessons of history:
    In 1649, Oliver Cromwell presided over the decapitation of Charles I of England. Cromwell died in 1658, and his Puritans were driven out of England wholeheartedly in 1662. About 12 years of theocracy in England. Strange how it did not last long there…
    In 1933, Adolph Hitler became Chancellor of Germany. In 1945, he blew his brains out in his Berlin bunker, and Nazi Germany was history. 12 years of what was an effective theocracy, with Hitler as their God. Strange how the Thousand Year Reich, and “Ein Volk! Ein Reich! Ein Fuhrer!” ended so soon…
    Let the theocrats chortle in their Budweiser. The overall historical momentum has always been in favor of greater freedom for all, and a strong march away from superstition and oppression.
    It took 87 years for the “Land Of The Free” to put an end to slavery. It took 144 years for the “Home Of The Brave” to allow women to vote. It took 188 years for the “Greatest Country on Earth” to put an end to segregation based on skin color. It took 197 years to legalize abortion.
    But, it all happened, and it could all be taken away…unless women, gays, blacks, latinos, all find common cause and recognize the common enemy…
    Theocracy is like masturbation: it’s cheap, clean, convenient, and you don’t have to go home alone in the dark. But, it’s lonely…CTZen

  34. 35 Bleatmop Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 12:19 pm

    Janus – I’d be interested in hearing about anything like that that has been proven to work.

    Anti-social – It may have been common, but I doubt it was effective. There is a reason why the sexual revolution came after the advent of “the pill”. It’s because it was the first effective oral contraceptive.

  35. 36 Phatbiker Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    If these crackers (like Jasper) are successful in making all abortions illegal their next target will be to make all types of contraceptives illegal, sex ed unavailable (only church version allowed).

  36. 37 Cornelius T.Zen Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 2:49 pm

    Good morrow, all!
    If all abortion, indeed, all birth control, becomes illegal in the Excited States of Murrica, there will be an underground railway transporting women to Mexico and Canada. The borders will have to be closed, Homeland Security will be called upon to control interstate and international travel, and the world will witness the Yew Ess, Eh? become an armed camp bent upon the subjugation of those second-class citizens, women.
    This may be the ultimate wet dream for Jackassper, RAFE, Pat and Barry. Home Depot will have to control the sale of boxcutters, otherwise a lot more men will find themselves being Bobbitted.
    It will be as though Stephen King had written “The Handmaid’s Tale.”
    They came for the queers
    I did not speak up, because I was not queer
    They came for the pregnant women
    I did not speak up, because I was not a pregnant woman
    They came for the blacks and latinos
    I did not speak up, because I was neither black nor latino
    When they came for me
    There was nobody to speak up for me
    Sound familiar? All we have to do is not speak up – CTZen

  37. 38 Jasper Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    Cornelius,

    You’re getting hysterical again. You don’t need to kill babies to have freedom.

  38. 39 Cornelius T.Zen Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    Good morrow, Jasper!
    Then what do you call taking away the freedom of women to decide their own reproductive destiny?
    War Is Peace
    Ignorance Is Strength
    Freedom Is Slavery
    Orwell saw the likes of you coming a long time ago – CTZen

  39. 40 Dr. Prole Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    Jasper admires the reproductive policy of Romania’s Nicolae Ceausescu. Nice, eh?

  40. 41 JJ Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    fern hill – It’s bad, but it ain’t over til the weighty woman warbles.

    The bill isn’t carved in stone as is — it still has to go through some kind of committee hearing, and the senate. The coathanger amendment could still be dropped — at least that’s what Rachel Maddow said on Meet the Press this morning. (And she said, they BETTER get rid of it or they’ll have a full scale revolt on their hands if it passes in its current form.) Most restrictive amendment since the Hyde Amendment 👿

  41. 42 Jasper Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    Planned Parenthood executive director Abby Johnson, who famously became a pro-life activist after witnessing an ultrasound of an abortion while she assisted in a procedure at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Texas. She charged that the abortion provider tries to “increase the number of abortions they do” for the purpose of making money, and described the emotional experience of watching an unborn baby at 13 weeks pregnancy “trying to get away” as its life was being ended.

    Johnson: “I saw the probe going into the woman’s uterus. And at that moment, I saw the baby moving and trying to get away from the probe. … And I thought, ‘It’s fighting for its life.’ And I thought, ‘It’s life, I mean, it’s alive.'”

  42. 43 JJ Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 3:52 pm

    Jasper – Lila “Abortions in the public square” Rose is a fascist hosebag. Her videos don’t show the entire interview “for some reason”, and she pushes them to say certain things.

    Lila Rose is an idiot with zero credibility.

  43. 44 JJ Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 3:56 pm

    Janus – Not a bad idea, actually. Women have been doing it for thousands of years, and will continue doing it. The only variable is How.

  44. 46 Dr. Prole Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    Sure, and if it’s alive inside of me, and for whatever reason I feel that I need to kill it, that is my right. I have the right to grant my consent or not to providing nourishment and environment for it, at great personal risk I might add. Being technically biologically alive is not the same nor equal to being a fully formed and born human being. If a woman needs to make that decision for whatever reason, it’s none of your damn business and it does not affect you one bit. You still have not commented on the fact that it used to be A-OK with the Catholic church to abort before quickening. I won’t hold my breath, because I know your answer: “I’m not an expert in ancient church history! You’re delusional!”

  45. 47 JJ Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 4:04 pm

    CTZen

    If all abortion, indeed, all birth control, becomes illegal in the Excited States of Murrica, there will be an underground railway transporting women to Mexico and Canada.

    You betcha 😉 Women’s clinics would spring up in every border town along the 49th.

    But in spite of the daydreams of the Jaspers of the world, it’s extremely unlikely that abortion would ever become illegal again in the States. Now that Obama is President, he will probably appoint 2 more supreme court judges, which completely secures Roe v Wade. Fetus fetishists will have to be content with their ridiculous ‘egg-as-person’ ballot initiatives every couple of years. Why not? Gives everyone else something to laugh at.

  46. 48 JJ Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    Phatbiker

    their next target will be to make all types of contraceptives illegal

    Oh, that’s been in the works for a couple of years now.

    They kind of have a problem with condoms though… since they aren’t a chemical, they can’t harp about their harmful effects. So they just make stuff up about them.

  47. 49 Jasper Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    “Sure, and if it’s alive inside of me, and for whatever reason I feel that I need to kill it, that is my right.”

    you have suggested that prohibiting a woman from having an abortion is to place the value of an embryo or fetus above that of the woman herself. Restricting abortion does not imply that the child is more valuable than the mother. Rather, it recognizes that the child’s right to not be killed is more fundamental than the woman’s right to not be pregnant.

    The assertion that Catholic Church teaching on abortion throughout history is confused and inconsistent is historically indefensible. The historical record shows beyond any doubt that the Church’s teaching, namely that abortion is a grave moral evil, has been clear, emphatic, and unwavering.

  48. 50 Cornelius T.Zen Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 4:40 pm

    Good morrow, all!
    And…Catholic priests have always been celibate.
    And..the Pope has always been infallible.
    And…Catholic priests NEVER molest children.
    And…the Church NEVER covers up any abuse of children.
    And…do as we say, not as we do.
    The historical record, Jasper? How far back are we talking about here? Or have you been too busy defending the indefensible, to look that far back?
    In your view, once a woman becomes pregnant, whether by her own decision or not, she must bring the fetus to term, because women exist solely for the pleasure of men and to provide offspring, and have no right to decide their own reproductive destiny.
    Why do you hate women, Jasper? Serious question, asking for a serious answer. I’m looking forward to your response. – CTZen

  49. 51 Jasper Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 5:00 pm

    What kind of concern for women is shown when we put more stress on killing the child than helping the woman to bear her child? The abortion mentality looks on pregnancy as a disease. It does not take women seriously in their unique privilege and power of bearing new life! Some say that the pro-life movement is run by men trying to control women. But did you ever realize that the abortion industry is run primarily by men, who make a lot of money by performing this degrading operation on women? Abortion does not take sex seriously, either. Instead, it makes it easier for men to exploit women sexually. As Rosemary Bottcher, a Feminist for Life, has written, “Abortion reduces women to the status of sex machines which can be ‘repaired’ if necessary. Abortion helps ease his (the man’s) anxiety about sex and relieves him of the last vestige of responsibility. At last sex is really free!”

    in fact, abortion harms women, ignores their rights, and exploits and degrades them.

  50. 52 Shade Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 5:44 pm

    But there isn’t more stress on removing the fetus. In fact the only one who seems to think having the option there means everyone will take it, is you. Also note it’s the WOMAN’s choice to decide whether she undergoes it or not. It’s not manditory abortion, once again it’s the choice. Also most abortionists do actually help women in carrying their babies to term, it might surprise you but that procedure is a small part of their full training.

    How can it ingore a woman’s rights, when she’s the one who makes the call? It doesn’t exploit them because once again, they get to choose.

    It does not make pregnancy into a diesease you’re the only one here calling it that. Frankly Jasper neither of us has much right to push what we think, because we’ll never be in that position.

    Let women decide what they want.

  51. 53 Cornelius T.Zen Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 5:56 pm

    Good morrow, Jasper!
    Why is it “necessary” to “help the woman bear her child”… if she does not want to “bear the child”? Are you saying that a pregnant woman should have no say, NO SAY WHATSOEVER, in whether she brings the fetus to term?
    The US is currently ranked at #31 in infant mortality, and #34 in natal mortality. In other words, 30 other countries do a better job of health care for living infant children, and 33 other countries do a better job of health care for expectant mothers, than the US. In what way, shape or form will outlawing abortion improve these standings? If your country’s medical system is that poor at taking care of the currently living, what makes anybody believe that the medical system would be any good at taking care of fetuses?
    It’s not about morality — it’s about control. You just can’t stand the idea that some uppity bitch told you “No!”, that some selfish woman refused to bear your child, that some ball-busting bulldyke gave you the finger and refused to be your personal incubator.
    Now, when a child is conceived in love, and brought into the world, and cared for from the heart of its mother (and with ANY LUCK, its father) that is a miracle, and should never be discouraged.
    “Thou shalt not covet anything that is thy neighbor’s.” That includes the happiness of others, and their right to control their own lives. Jasper, you are a most unhappy person, and you begrudge the happiness of others, which is why you oppose gay marriage, and access to safe, medical abortion, and the teaching of evolution, and the freedom of ANYBODY who is not you.
    You have every right to your envy, your lust for controlling others, your greed, your anger, your sloth, your gluttony, and the vanity that makes you think that you can make other people behave the way you want them.
    I do not covet anything of yours. Thou shalt not covet anything of mine. Deal? Or does God tell you otherwise? – CTZen

  52. 54 Jasper Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 6:37 pm

    “Why is it “necessary” to “help the woman bear her child”… if she does not want to “bear the child”? ”

    because abortion is murder.

    “Are you saying that a pregnant woman should have no say, NO SAY WHATSOEVER, in whether she brings the fetus to term?”

    No! of course women have a say, she can decide whether or not she wants to get pregnant (nobody can force her), but once she
    consents to sex, there is a chance she will get pregnant. It’s called personal responsibility.

    “Now, when a child is conceived in love, and brought into the world, and cared for from the heart of its mother”

    But if a child is not so lucky, does he deserve to be killed?

    “The US is currently ranked at #31 in infant mortality, and #34 in natal mortality. In other words, 30 other countries do a better job of health care for living infant children, and 33 other countries do a better job of health care for expectant mothers, than the US.”

    from Ann Coulter:

    “One factor contributing to the U.S.’ infant mortality rate is that blacks have intractably high infant mortality rates — irrespective of age, education, socioeconomic status and so on. No one knows why.

    Neither medical care nor discrimination can explain it: Hispanics in the U.S. have lower infant mortality rates than either blacks or whites. Give Switzerland or Japan our ethnically diverse population and see how they stack up on infant mortality rates.

    Even with a higher-risk population, the alleged differences in infant mortality are negligible. We’re talking about seven infant deaths per 1,000 live births in the U.S. compared to 5 deaths per 1,000 for Britain and Canada. This is a rounding error — perhaps literally when you consider that the U.S. tabulates every birth, even in poor, small and remote areas, while other countries are not always so meticulous.

    But the international comparisons in “infant mortality” rates aren’t comparing the same thing, anyway. We also count every baby who shows any sign of life, irrespective of size or weight at birth.

    By contrast, in much of Europe, babies born before 26 weeks’ gestation are not considered “live births.” Switzerland only counts babies who are at least 30 centimeters long (11.8 inches) as being born alive. In Canada, Austria and Germany, only babies weighing at least a pound are considered live births.

    And of course, in Milan it’s not considered living if the baby isn’t born within driving distance of the Côte d’Azur.

    By excluding the little guys, these countries have simply redefined about one-third of what we call “infant deaths” in America as “miscarriages.”

    Moreover, many industrialized nations, such as France, Hong Kong and Japan — the infant mortality champion — don’t count infant deaths that occur in the 24 hours after birth. Almost half of infant deaths in the U.S. occur in the first day.”

  53. 55 Cornelius T.Zen Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 6:53 pm

    Good morrow, all!
    Ann Coulter (!) is an AUTHORITY (?) on the reasons for the US being where it is in the World Health Organization ratings? That’s like taking marital advice from Carrie Prejean and Joe the Plumber. Or Rudy Giuliani, for that matter. Or advice on weight loss, or drug rehab, from Rush Limbaugh.
    Ann Coulter? She can’t even be honest about her own age!
    Great attempt at credibility there, Jackassper.
    What next? Dr. Phil on physical fitness? Glenn Beck on mental health? Bill O’Reilly on awards in broadcasting?
    No wonder Jesus wept – CTZen

  54. 56 Jasper Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 7:13 pm

    Cornelius,

    the points she makes are true. Countries have different ways for counting infant mortality.

    let me ask you a question, do always spend this much energy hating America?

    I don’t know who or what you worship (probably yourself), but I feel sorry for you.

  55. 57 Cornelius T.Zen Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 7:57 pm

    Good morrow, Jasper!
    The World Health Organization has a standardized method of accounting for its health care statistical measurements. It uses science. Ann Coulter does not.
    I do not hate America, I feel sorry for it. I have American friends, and they’re embarrassed by their own country. Your children can’t read, know little of their own history and geography, and less about the world outside your shores and borders. I’ve traveled through the contiguous (look it up) United States. Prairies, rivers, mountains, ocean shores, wildlife all over, it brings tears to my eyes. And all your corporations can think of is: Log it. Mine It. Pave It. Wal-Mart. Ship the jobs overseas. Screw the customer, the shareholder is God. Jesus is coming, we need another interstate, another shopping center, another toxic waste dump.
    I do not hate America. I have no use, none whatsoever, for the brain-dead fucktards who run it. Liberal, conservative, it doesn’t matter, everybody with brains has given up and moved to Ireland, God bless that lovely little island.
    I worship the sun, the wind, the mountain, the river, the ocean, the cloud, the rain, the snow, the lightning and thunder. I hear His Voice and I see His Face in all those things. Your little, sad, paranoid, sociopathic, schizophrenic, collection of fourth-hand hearsay does not impress me.
    When the meek inherit the earth, they may not want it after all. Not after the American corporation is done with it.
    I consider how stupid the average American is, and consider that 50% of them are stupider than that.
    Hate America? Why? I do not hate retarded children, why should I hate America? You see, hate is the child of anger, and anger is nothing more than love disappointed.
    I am disappointed in America. It needs a time out – CTZen

  56. 58 Jasper Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 8:35 pm

    The Infant Mortality Rates as currently published by the UN and WHO are bogus lies. They are full of shit.

    More people immigrate to the US than all other countries combined…such an awful country America. Real diverse Island that Ireland is…

    I figured you’d worship the moon and stars you obnoxious twit.

    “Hate America? Why? I do not hate retarded children”

    No child is ‘retarded’ you filthy commie pig.

  57. 60 The Anti-Social Socialist Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 8:59 pm

    What a douche. I like watching pinheads get served as much as the next guy, but watching the same pinhead come back over and over and over again, never learning his lesson, never developing a single braincell?

    You have to admire someone who comes to a fight completely unarmed, but you have to be a sick sort of individual to watch someone jump into the fight with both arms tied behind his back and one leg sawed off at the knee.

    Someone give Jasper the thorazine before he hurts himself.

  58. 61 JJ Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 9:25 pm

    Jasper expectorates yet another of Nurse Stanek’s anti-choice talking points:

    in fact, abortion harms women, ignores their rights, and exploits and degrades them.

    Unlike forcing women to give birth against their will.

  59. 62 Janus Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 9:48 pm

    “I think it was referred to as ‘moon tea’ or somesuch, though I have no idea what it contained.”

    It very likely contained one or two or more of literally hundreds of herbs, depending on which of them commonly grew in any particular area of the world.

    One of the most common (and it grows almost anywhere) is tansy. It’s actually mentioned in the bible as the “floor sweepings” the priests brewed into a drink that a man could force his wife to ingest in order to rid her of her lover’s, er, leavings.

    Yeah, it’s in the bible. Numbers. Five. Eleven to twenty-something.

    Another common one is pennyroyal. Also grows almost everywhere. Very likely also part of the aforementioned floor sweepings.

  60. 63 JJ Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 10:16 pm

    Jasper – Try not to be a jerk to people. CTZen took the time to give you an intelligent reply, you should be respectful.

    By the way. Your way of worshipping God isn’t the only way — there are some people who comment here who are very spiritual people, and their beliefs are as valid as yours. Have some class!!!

  61. 64 Janus Sunday, November 8, 2009 at 10:29 pm

    “You don’t need to kill babies to have freedom.”

    So who’s killing babies?

    “Restricting abortion does not imply that the fetus is more valuable than the woman. Rather, it recognizes that the fetus’s right to not be evicted is more fundamental than the woman’s right to not be pregnant.”

    I changed a few words to make it accurate. You are in such need of English language training. ESL R us.

    And the ONLY person whi is allowed to make that decision is the pregnant woman, her own self!

    “What kind of concern for women is shown when we put more stress on killing the child than helping the woman to bear her child?”

    Wrong question. You should be asking what kind of “concern” do we show for women who are being forced into physical slavery just because people like you happen to think you can equate a fetus with a human being? Your mythology is not my mythology, so keep YOUR fucking mythology out of my life and the lives of every other woman who does not share it with you!

    These women don’t want your “help” in bearing a child! They want to get rid of a pregnancy!

    “The abortion mentality looks on pregnancy as a disease.”

    If it’s in my body without my will and full permission, it IS a disease.

    “It does not take women seriously in their unique privilege and power of bearing new life!”

    Excuse me, I think you just had a brain fart and you expect the rest of us to sniff it in appreciation.

    If it’s MY “privilege” and “power” then it should also be my choice as to when and where — and even if — to exercise that power. NOT YOURS.

    “because abortion is murder.”

    Oh, blow it out your ass, junior.

    “from Ann Coulter:”

    How can I put this politely? Do NOT quote that anhydrous lime pit of the intellect here and expect ever to be regarded as a being of any intelligence whatsoever.

  62. 65 Dr. Prole Monday, November 9, 2009 at 8:04 am

    $0.02 – I’m with Fern. Off the island. His Pope worship, utter bullshit and disrespect towards women and the victims of Hitler has officially become tiresome, IMHO.

    Jasper, get your own blog and spout your misogynist fairy tales there.

  63. 66 Jasper Monday, November 9, 2009 at 8:14 am

    Hey Anti,

    meet me in a dark ally (queer boy with the devils beard).

    Hey Janus,

    Ann Coulter would have you for lunch witch.

  64. 67 The Anti-Social Socialist Monday, November 9, 2009 at 8:28 am

    And the very last resort of all of Jasper and his ilk – violence. He can’t argue his way out of a paper bag and being confronted with scorn for his lack of morals and knowledge all he can do is go the CHRISTIAN WAY and threaten to kick the shit out of people who disagree, just like the Good Ole Days when it was legal for him to do so!

    Amusing that he thinks me a ‘queer boy’. I wish I was a skinny little flaming thing; no I’m what is called a ‘bear’, and one that s quite at home with big greasy bikes, guns and knives…

  65. 68 The Anti-Social Socialist Monday, November 9, 2009 at 8:29 am

    “Ann Coulter would have you for lunch witch.”

    No doubt she would. Ann Coulter looks like the kind of creature who would eat her own young.

  66. 69 The Anti-Social Socialist Monday, November 9, 2009 at 8:41 am

    Oh wait, I may have read it wrong… I’m always expecting violence from these people.

    “meet me in a dark ally (queer boy with the devils beard).”

    You’d have to buy me a couple drinks first, babe.

  67. 70 Dr. Prole Monday, November 9, 2009 at 8:48 am

    “meet me in a dark ally (queer boy with the devils beard).”

    Well now we know what Jasper looks like! I have to say I’m a little surprised that he doesn’t sport a tonsure, but I’ll keep an eye out for a queer boy with a pointy beard in my local alleys and be sure to say hello.

  68. 71 RealityBites Monday, November 9, 2009 at 9:21 am

    TASS, if you want to be a skinny little flaming thing, go ahead and be one. On the net you can be whatever you want. And nothing you could come up with could possibly be as ludicrously absurd as Jasper’s impersonation of a human being.

  69. 72 JJ Monday, November 9, 2009 at 10:58 am

    Antisocial – I think Jasper just made a pass at you 😯

  70. 73 Cornelius T.Zen Monday, November 9, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    Good morrow, all!
    My, my, my, where to begin, where to begin…
    Jasper:” The Infant Mortality Rates as currently published by the UN and WHO are bogus lies. They are full of shit.”
    Scatological vituperation aside (you eat with that mouth?):
    Your response indicates that you have access to information that is more precise and more reliably coroborrated than that provided by the World Health Organization. Perhaps you might share exactly where one might find such superior knowledge. It would be sad indeed if you but played the part of the inept truck driver, and could not back it up.
    Jasper: “More people immigrate to the US than all other countries combined…such an awful country America. Real diverse Island that Ireland is”
    For one who displays absolutely no respect for women, gays, non-Caucasians and non-Christians, it is refreshing to witness how much you value diversity.
    Jasper: ” figured you’d worship the moon and stars you obnoxious twit”
    Mea culpa, mea culpa, I forgot to include the moon and stars among the things that I worship, mea maxima culpa. I can only hope to beg their forgiveness for my oversight, miserere nobis.
    Jasper: “No child is ‘retarded’ you filthy commie pig.”
    I am sure that your words would provide no end of comfort to such people as Eunice Kennedy Shriver, Sarah Palin, and a cousin of mine in Saskatchewan, all of whom are among the many parents of Downs Syndrome children. What, were you turned down by the Special Olympics for not being smart enough?
    Such vitriol, and all because I decline to bend the knee to your reptilian corporate idols, or decline to join you in fellating the corpses of Ronald Reagan and Joe McCarthy.
    Flattery will get you nowhere – a place with which you appear to be most familiar – CTZen

  71. 74 Frank Frink Monday, November 9, 2009 at 8:28 pm

    No doubt she would. Ann Coulter looks like the kind of creature who would eat her own young.

    Actually Ann Coulter looks like the kind of creature who hasn’t eaten more than a sprig of lettuce in 15 years.

    This is, of course, the same Anne Coulter who once tried to bluff a CBC reporter and got pwned.

  72. 75 Janus Monday, November 9, 2009 at 9:51 pm

    “Hey Janus,

    Ann Coulter would have you for lunch witch.”

    Hah! Ann Coulter doesn’t eat lunch. Or anything else, from the visual evidence.

    And that’s Witch with a capital W.


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