Amendment Interrupted

Get ready for World War III… at least according to our Resident Wingnut, anyway.  Why?   Because there’s already discussion about changing the Stupak Amendment:

Obama:  “This is a health care bill, not an abortion bill.”

President Obama said today that Congress needs to change abortion-related language in thehealth care bill passed by the House of Representatives this weekend. […]

Saying the bill cannot change the status quo regarding the ban on federally funding abortions, the President said “there are strong feelings on both sides” about an amendment passed on Saturday and added to the legislation, “and what that tells me is that there needs to be some more work before we get to the point where we’re not changing the status quo.”

Did I call it or did I call it?   Not only that, but even the GOP might not even be much help with this one.

But, chickens, hatched, count, etc.   We shall see.

UPDATE: Looking good, looking good

(h/t DKos)

48 Responses to “Amendment Interrupted”


  1. 1 Jasper Monday, November 9, 2009 at 5:03 pm

    JJ,

    B. Hussian Obama supports infantide, of course he is going to oppose the bill as is. But it will not pass if he the abortion language changes.

    How does it feel to be working for Satan?

  2. 2 Torontonian Monday, November 9, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    Jasper,

    Learn to spell. The word is infanticide not infantide.

    Come back when you have a proper dictionary and something
    worthwhile for us to read.

  3. 3 JJ Monday, November 9, 2009 at 5:33 pm

    Jasper

    How does it feel to be working for Satan?

    Jasper, look over to the right.

    No, the other right 🙄

    See that big red “A” in my sidebar?

  4. 4 The Anti-Social Socialist Monday, November 9, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    Jasper honey, come back to the alley.

  5. 5 JJ Monday, November 9, 2009 at 5:42 pm

    Torontonian – Jasper loves Jesus, but he drinks a little.

  6. 6 Jasper Monday, November 9, 2009 at 5:45 pm

    JJ,

    It doesn’t matter what you believe, Catholics and Christians can be under Satan’s power as well. It’s pretty simple, support legalized murder->bad, against legalized murder-> good.

  7. 7 JJ Monday, November 9, 2009 at 5:45 pm

    Antisocial 😆 😆 😆

  8. 8 JJ Monday, November 9, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    Jasper… news flash… a woman having an abortion isn’t the same thing as Tony Soprano doing a hit on someone.

  9. 9 J. A. Baker Monday, November 9, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    Oh, God, JJ! That woman was from my hometown! 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

  10. 10 sassy Monday, November 9, 2009 at 6:47 pm

    JAB – do you refer to Gladys,(sp?) in the vid? She sounds like a rather happy individual.

  11. 11 J. A. Baker Monday, November 9, 2009 at 6:50 pm

    Sassy – Yes, that’s exactly who I was referring to. Now I’m going to have to dig up that bit Mom sent me a few months ago about the comedienne who talked about bungie jumping in Nanaimo…

  12. 12 J. A. Baker Monday, November 9, 2009 at 7:00 pm

    Ahh…here it is…

    You’re welcome.

  13. 13 Torontonian Monday, November 9, 2009 at 7:37 pm

    J A Baker

    Thank you for that video. That lady is screamingly funny.

    Please don’t get the wrong idea about Nanaimo,British Columbia.

    It’s a wonderful place and is famous for a confection called
    a Nanaimo Bar. Your radio host, Garrison Keillor found out about them when a person from Nanaimo offered him some Nanaimo bars on his radio program, A Prairie Home Companion.

    It was probably then that APR listeners learned about the bar
    all because a jazz musician–Diana Krall–brought them to him.

    Diana Krall and her husband Elvis Costello still live in Nanaimo, BC.

    So there’s more to Nanaimo than bungee jumping. Google some photos of the place; you’ll be pleasantly surprised.

  14. 14 Torontonian Monday, November 9, 2009 at 7:39 pm

    JJ

    I remember viewing that tape of Gladys Hardy somewhere and it’s hard to forget such a person.

    We’re lucky there are such people in our lives to brighten
    our days and remind us how we’re supposed to be human.

  15. 15 deBeauxOs Monday, November 9, 2009 at 7:55 pm

    Infantide – isn’t that a detergent for infants’s clothing?

  16. 16 Reality Bites Monday, November 9, 2009 at 8:11 pm

    Well if we’re headed down that road, why do Canadians wash their clothes in Tide?

    Cause it’s too cold outtide!

  17. 17 J. A. Baker Monday, November 9, 2009 at 8:28 pm

    Please don’t get the wrong idea about Nanaimo,British Columbia.

    Don’t get the wrong idea about me. If JJ’s pics of her place (and her kittehs) is any indication, Nanaimo (and Vancouver) are actually quite nice. Vancouver is actually on my list of places should political developments here in what CTZen calls the Excited States necessitates my moving to Canada. That, and Toronto (which would put me within driving distance of Canadian Cynic, if recollection serves).

    I just posted that video in response to JJ to razz her, as it were. 😆

  18. 18 J. A. Baker Monday, November 9, 2009 at 8:30 pm

    Gah… that should be “If JJ’s pics of her place ARE any indication.”

    Me talk English good one day. 😳

  19. 19 Jasper Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 12:32 am

    Canada’s Health care disaster

    ..”After more than a decade of public health care with mandatory coverage, so many Canadian doctors have left the practice and so many young people have entered other fields that Canada ranks 26th of 28 developed nations in its ratio of physicians to population. Once, Canada ranked among the leaders in the number of physicians — but that was before government health care drove doctors out of the practice in droves.”

  20. 20 JJ Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 12:47 am

    “Human Events” 🙄

    I got a better idea — instead of getting your information on Canadian healthcare from American insurance lobby pimps talking out of their asses, why don’t you just listen to some real Canadians?

    That’s 87% of us talking 🙂 87% 8)

  21. 21 JJ Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 12:48 am

    JAB – 😆 Thanks for the vid, that lady’s hilarious.

    She was in little Nanaimo — that’s where I am (sort of — at least, it’s the closest town). The Bungy Zone is just a few miles from me!

  22. 22 Frank Frink Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 1:02 am

    And yet, Jaaaaaasper, despite your link, even if it were all true, we in Canada still have a higher life expectancy than our cousins in the 50 excited states.

    And the average Canuck is also healthier.

    Even FauxNews reported it.

  23. 23 Frank Frink Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 1:15 am

    One more thing Nanaimo is famous for that has not yet been mentioned ion this thread… *cough* bathtub races *cough*

    OK, two more things – The Full Nanaimo. 😉

    Former longtime mayor Frank Ney is responsible for both.

  24. 24 Janus Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 1:30 am

    JAB, thanks for that link! Oh, my…laughing so hard, I now truly understand what is meant by “ROTFLMAO!”

    And…er…booking my seat now for the 2010 Nekkid Jump. Let VanOC and the IOC top that one!

  25. 25 Reality Bites Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 3:59 am

    “After more than a decade”?

    Strange way to describe 40-odd years.

  26. 26 Jasper Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 4:38 am

    from Dick Morris:

    In Canada, unions control the entire health care process. In Manitoba, for example, there is an eight-month wait for colonoscopies, yet the unions do not permit weekend or evening procedures, thereby extending the waiting lists.

    The unions are doing to health care in Canada what they have done to education in America — stifling creativity, reinforcing bureaucracy and extending waiting times.

    Because of these long waits for colonoscopies, there is now a 25 percent higher incidence of colon cancer in Canada than in the United States. And, because the leading drugs that we routinely use to treat the malady in the U.S. are banned in Canada because of their high cost, 41 percent of Canadians who get the cancer die of it, compared with only 32 percent in the United States. Overall, the cancer death rate in Canada runs 16 percent higher than in the United States. Cancer does not wait for waiting lists to clear.

  27. 27 toujoursdan Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 5:33 am

    Keep in mind that Jaspers link is from a a right wing “underground” site. You know how these sites make up their own reality.

    But anywho…

    Canada’s Health care disaster

    ..”After more than a decade of public health care with mandatory coverage, so many Canadian doctors have left the practice and so many young people have entered other fields that Canada ranks 26th of 28 developed nations in its ratio of physicians to population. Once, Canada ranked among the leaders in the number of physicians — but that was before government health care drove doctors out of the practice in droves.”

    Pure right wing propaganda. And of course it ignores the fact that EXACTLY the same thing is happening in the States. Doctors in the U.S. are also leaving the practise because of the onerous paperwork required by insurance companies before they approve treatment.

    Wall Street Journal: The Coming Doctor Shortage

    From the article:

    Even in the absence of health-care reform, according to the American Association of Medical Colleges, the U.S. will face a shortage of at least 125,000 physicians by 2025. We have about 700,000 active physicians today. One factor driving this shortage is that the baby-boomer generation is getting older and will require more care. By 2025 the number of people over 65 will have increased by about 75% of what it is today—to 64 million from 37 million today.

    Doctors are also aging. By 2020, as many as one-third of the physicians currently practicing will likely retire. If health-care reform adds millions of people to the health-care market, the shortage of doctors will be even greater than it is projected to be now.

    It is important to note that the shortage the country will soon face isn’t just of primary-care physicians. It is true that there aren’t enough primary-care doctors and nurse practitioners. But it is also true that we need more cardiologists, neurologists, general surgeons, pediatric subspecialists, urologists and other highly trained specialists.

    Nonetheless, the few ideas to address the coming doctor shortages that were briefly considered in Washington treated the problem merely as a shortfall of primary-care doctors. One idea is to shift unused federal training funds to hospitals that need more positions, but only if those funds are used for primary care. Another is to move primary-care physician training out of hospitals and into federally qualified health centers. A third idea is to take training dollars away from doctors and instead use it to train nurses and other professionals.

    None of these ideas would actually increase the number of doctors.

    From ABC News:

    Are you having a tough time getting in to see a doctor? A new study says patient access to medical care in our state is at a critical level.

    Dr. Peter Gates is just beginning his day at his New London practice.

    “We’re booked solid, booked solid today,” said Dr. Gates’ office manager, Cheryl Douton.
    “Any room for emergencies?”
    “Not right now,” Douton responded.

    And that’s how it usually is most days at GP Family Care.

    “I’m behind already. I was behind after the first one, it happens every day,” Dr. Gates said.
    “So you limit the number of patients you see everyday so that you can be the doctor that you want to be?”
    “Yeah, I can’t work in a system where I have to see 35-40 patients a day and think that I did a good job and don’t worry when I get home about the things that I missed because I just didn’t have the time to think,” Dr. Gates responded.

    Mounds of paperwork cuts into that time.

    “We get audited by Medicare, by insurance companies, by the malpractice companies and now by the pharmacies as to what we are doing,” Dr. Gates said.

    Channel 8 News: Doctor Shortage becoming critical

    So exactly the same thing is happening in America’s so-called free market system that Jasper wants to keep.

  28. 28 toujoursdan Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 5:43 am

    Because of these long waits for colonoscopies, there is now a 25 percent higher incidence of colon cancer in Canada than in the United States. And, because the leading drugs that we routinely use to treat the malady in the U.S. are banned in Canada because of their high cost, 41 percent of Canadians who get the cancer die of it, compared with only 32 percent in the United States. Overall, the cancer death rate in Canada runs 16 percent higher than in the United States. Cancer does not wait for waiting lists to clear.

    These stats are false. Canada has lower colon and other cancer rates and better patient outcomes than in the U.S.

    See: <a href="A systematic review of studies comparing health outcomes in Canada and the United States

    And my source, unlike yours, comes from a peer reviewed medical journal.

  29. 30 toujoursdan Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 5:56 am

    And finally, wait times for treatment are about the same in the U.S. as in Canada, the difference here is that in Canada they are shown on Ministry of Health websites for all to see. In the U.S. they are closely guarded secrets.

    Business Week: The Doctor will see you… in 3 Months

    For all its problems, [Americans] say, U.S. patients at least don’t have to endure the endless waits for medical care endemic to government-run systems. The lobbying group America’s Health Insurance Plans spells it out in a rebuttal to Sicko: “The American people do not support a government takeover of the entire health-care system because they know that means long waits for rationed care.”

    In reality, both data and anecdotes show that the American people are already waiting as long or longer than patients living with universal health-care systems.

    …All this time spent “queuing,” as other nations call it, stems from too much demand and too little supply. Only one-third of U.S. doctors are general practitioners, compared with half in most European countries. On top of that, only 40% of U.S. doctors have arrangements for after-hours care, vs. 75% in the rest of the industrialized world. Consequently, some 26% of U.S. adults in one survey went to an emergency room in the past two years because they couldn’t get in to see their regular doctor, a significantly higher rate than in other countries.

    There is no systemized collection of data on wait times in the U.S. That makes it difficult to draw comparisons with countries that have national health systems, where wait times are not only tracked but made public…

    …The Commonwealth study did find one area where the U.S. was first by a wide margin: 51% of sick Americans surveyed did not visit a doctor, get a needed test, or fill a prescription within the past two years because of cost. No other country came close.

    Few solutions have been proposed for lengthy waits in the U.S., in part, say policy experts, because the problem is rarely acknowledged…

    Keep in mind, this system, even with longer wait times than public systems in other countries, is the system Jasper wants to keep.

    And unlike Jasper, I went to mainstream sources, not propaganda sites which as anyone can see, only present part of the story.

  30. 31 Jasper Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 7:32 am

    Also,

    The reason why Doctors are leaving in the US is becuase of the high cost of malpractice insurance. Caused by the liberal trial lawyers union.

  31. 32 toujoursdan Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 7:34 am

    And the patients whose lives have been torn apart because of sloppy practices and negligence and are suffering from it.

    Trial lawyers don’t get carte blanche. It’s the judges and juries that actually make the decisions.

  32. 33 RealityBites Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 8:51 am

    “Liberal trial lawyers union?”

    There’s a word I used to see on a rather freewheeling message board. It’s not very polite, and it’s not the sort of non-PC language I generally use, especially here, where we’re all JJ’s guests.

    But sometimes there’s only one word that will do. Jasper, you are a fucktard.

  33. 34 Dr. Prole Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 10:31 am

    You know why malpractice insurance is so high, Jasper? Actually I don’t expect you to know because you’re not really big on that whole thinking for yourself thing. Much easier to just listen to a super rich prescription drug addict and sex tourist on AM radio for your information. Hint: it’s not because of trial lawyers, it’s because your beloved insurance companies usually offer a big ass settlement to make most cases go away rather than let them go to trial and risk a bigger settlement. Many cases that would be laughed out of court are settled with hundreds of thousands if not millions of $$, just to avoid a trial. Tort reform is a giveaway to the insurance corps, not that you’d have a problem with that. Also, lots of cases are dealt with through binding arbitration. The clauses are written into the fine print of your policy.

    Malpractice lawsuits account for less than one half of one percent of healthcare spending in the US.

  34. 35 J. A. Baker Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 11:52 am

    The Bungy Zone is just a few miles from me!

    So JJ, how often do you go watch the nekkid bungee jumping?! 😉 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

  35. 36 CK Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 12:08 pm

    Jasper: It doesn’t matter what you believe, Catholics and Christians can be under Satan’s power as well. It’s pretty simple, support legalized murder->bad, against legalized murder-> good

    Just curious: Does this also apply to capital punishment in the world according to Jasper??

    Sorry to get off topic, JJ.

  36. 37 JJ Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    CK – Jasper probably opposes Capital Punishment, since that is the church’s position. They are opposed to the taking of any human life, so there is some consistency there. The problem is in how they define “life” in the most simplistic terms, as being from conception.

  37. 38 JJ Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 12:58 pm

    JAB

    So JJ, how often do you go watch the nekkid bungee jumping?!

    Watch? 😉 😛

  38. 39 JJ Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    FF – The full Nanaimo! I’ve never heard that one before 😆

    Black Frank was a real character. The Bathtub Races aren’t the same without him.

  39. 40 JJ Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 1:03 pm

    Janus

    booking my seat now for the 2010 Nekkid Jump

    😯 😯 😯

  40. 41 JJ Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 1:10 pm

    RB

    “After more than a decade”?

    Strange way to describe 40-odd years.

    😆 Yeah, right from the word Go you know you’re reading someone who has no idea what they’re talking about. But I guess it’s kind of hard to start off an anti-Canadian health care rant with, “after half a century of public health care…” — people might ask questions.

  41. 42 JJ Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    Jasper – Dick Morris is an insurance lobby whore, bought and paid for. Nothing he says has any credibility.

    Why is it that you can only find these right wing whacko sites to back up your claims, but nothing like the credible sources toujoursdan cites? Did you ever stop and wonder?

  42. 43 J. A. Baker Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    Watch? 😉 😛

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

    Somehow, I knew you’d respond that way, JJ.

  43. 44 JJ Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 1:40 pm

    toujoursdan – Brilliant fisking. Well done.

    What Jasper and most anti-reformers are missing is that all the things they bitch about wrt the Canadian system are already happening in the US under the private system. There’s even something they have that we DON’T have that they’re scared shitless of — Death Panels (when you consider the people who’ve died because their insurance provider cut them off, decisions made by “panels” of insurance company bureaucrats).

    The insurance lobby has done a great job of spreading misinformation. It will be interesting to see what the American people think in 2 years from now, as they start using the public system 😆 I predict Jasper will be out marching around with a “Re-elect Obama!” sign.

  44. 45 J. A. Baker Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    Dick Morris is an insurance lobby whore, bought and paid for.

    Dick Morris is too busy getting the prostitute’s toe out of his mouth to say anything with even the most tangential relationship to the truth.

  45. 46 JJ Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    RB – What can ya do, eh? Sometimes there just isn’t a PC word that’s appropriate to the subject matter at hand.

  46. 47 J. A. Baker Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    There’s even something they have that we DON’T have that they’re scared shitless of — Death Panels (when you consider the people who’ve died because their insurance provider cut them off, decisions made by “panels” of insurance company bureaucrats).

    One of the frequent bumper-sticker slogans wingnuts constantly shout along those lines (Neal Boortz is notorious for this) is that “libruls believe that a gubmint bureaucrat knows better than your doctor what treatment you need.”

    My response is simple: “Conservatives believe that a CIGNA accountant knows better than your doctor what treatment you need.”

  47. 48 JJ Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    Dr.Prole

    Malpractice lawsuits account for less than one half of one percent of healthcare spending in the US.

    Some of it is also because of the unnecessary tests doctors run to avoid malpractice suits, but that’s also a drop in the bucket. Insurance companies are grifting, scamming and ripping off the consumer. No wonder they’re fighting reform so hard, the gravy train will finally end.


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