Glory is fleeting, Part Duh

It’s hard out there for a professional ex-fetus:

Tebow reportedly requested the room bow their heads in prayer before the Wonderlic. Another player reportedly told him to “shut the fuck up.”

Abomination!  Certainly the other players rushed to Tebow’s defense?

Other players in the room then laughed.

Cue the bitching and whining about religious persecution in 3…2…1…

(h/t tbogg)

29 Responses to “Glory is fleeting, Part Duh”


  1. 1 Cornelius T.Zen Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 11:08 am

    Good morrow, all!
    Matthew 6, 1: “Beware of practising your piety before men in order to be seen by them; for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in Heaven.”
    Matthew 6, 6: “But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.”
    Yrah, I love Jesus, but I drink a little – CTZen

  2. 2 Phatbiker Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 11:49 am

    If I was there I’d be tempted to let rip a loud fart.
    PFFFFT, amen to that bro!! 😆

  3. 3 Brian Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 11:53 am

    Ex-fetus Matthew 5:14 — 16: You are the light of the world.  A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but [they put it] on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.  Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

    I love Jesus, too; and I drink a little, too.

  4. 4 Dr. Prole Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    Gotta love that infallible word of God. And by “infallible” I mean “written by mortal men and completely contradictory to the point that it makes no sense”.

    I like Jesus just fine. Any long-haired dude who turns water into wine for a party is A-OK in my book; and I drink a little too. I think I’ll give Gladys a call…

  5. 5 Brian Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    Beg to differ, but there aren’t actually any contradictions in the Bible (I’ve been through it a few times, and have read many supposed “contradictions” which aren’t actually).  To be sure, there are passages that would disagree if the situations into which they were spoken were identical, but when the actual context and such are taken into consideration, then the contradictions are easily resolved.

    But listen: if it is so completely contradictory, perhaps you could provide the 1 or 2 most sterling examples of such?  (Seems it should be a walk in the park if there are so many examples from which to choose.)

    Thanks for the acronym unpacking on the other page; that was helpful.

  6. 6 Dr. Prole Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    As it happens there are some right in this thread. See if you can’t spot them.

  7. 7 Dr. Prole Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 6:28 pm

    And anyway, Brian, I stopped believing in the Bible as anything other than a book of myths as soon as we played “telephone” in school. I figured if a class or 25 students can’t get a sentence from one end of a room to another without altering it, there’s no way some guy writing a century or more after an “event” has got it exactly right.

  8. 8 Brian Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    Well, it is like I said: the apparent contradictions disappear when taken in proper context.  The admonitions to pray in private and so on which CTZen provided are in a portion of the Sermon on the Mount wherein Jesus is admonishing those who would follow Him to not behave in a way that is designed to get praise for the person so acting.

    The passage that I provided (same sermon, earlier in the development of His theme) is showing that religion that is done strictly privately has no benefit.

    These two themes, in proper sequence provide balance between two extremes, like this:

    Living out your relationship with God strictly in private is not only not the right approach, it is actually fruitless — act in a way that will cause those who see to praise your Father, who is in heaven.  But I don’t mean to say that you should show off, such that those who see praise you.  That would be vain, and would be a sin.

    That’s not contradictory in the slightest, and is something like the style of advice all parents give their kids relating to all manner of things kids do.

     

    When I see your comments about “telephone” (I just love that game!), my reaction is that you are begging the question.  You have essentially (as I read it) established a priori that there is no such thing as the supernatural.  Therefore, if a claim that this or that is supernatural is presented, you would reject the claim, having already established that there is no such thing.  But it begs the question, because any evidence is judged to be false prior to examination of that evidence.

    It is as if a man tells his friend, “I have found true love,” only to have his friend tell him that that is clearly impossible, since there is no such thing.

    As for me, I say that the Bible has held together fro millennia (and there is really good evidence for that) because God has superintended it, protecting it.  No one playing “telephone” has that protection, so the outcome is very different.

  9. 9 Dr. Prole Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    I never said I didn’t believe in the supernatural. I just don’t believe in the bible.

  10. 10 Brian Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    Well then I am confused.  You give an example squarely outside the realm of the supernatural, a game of Telephone, then use that to explain why you disbelieve something that is purported to derive from the author of nature itself, who by definition would have to be supernatural.  But then you say that you do believe in the supernatural.

    It would appear that you yourself have some apparent contradictions!  (I am chuckling at the irony, and mean that in a good natured, amused fashion, not as an accusation;  please don’t take umbrage at that.)

  11. 11 psa Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 7:11 pm

    sun still not revolving around earth which is still not centre of universe. for such a big stinking rock star of the primitive set, jeeziz makes no appearance among the fastidious records of the romans and there’s no evidence that the tall tales of the bible occurred except for the bible. so claiming the stories in the bible are true because they appear in the bible doesn’t exactly represent compelling evidence. the bible has only “held together” for millennia as a result of fear, ignorance and intimidation. believing in it doesn’t make it true.

  12. 12 psa Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    pretty friggin’ arrogant to think that there’s only the one supernatural option among the laundry list of belief systems and ideas.

  13. 13 Dr. Prole Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    Brian, my dad would say to you, “You talk like a sausage”.

    The game of telephone has nothing to do with disproving the supernatural and everything to do with proving human nature and our communication skills, or lack thereof. Add onto that a heapin’ helpin’ of greed and lust for power and control. Toss in some misogyny, belief that vaginas have teeth or whatever, and *poof*! You have every “holy” book ever written that claims to be the “word of God”. I don’t buy it.

    I trust only my own senses and my own counsel when it comes to matters of the spirit these days, and it’s nobody’s business but mine. Certainly no child raping priest is going to guide me through this mortal coil.

    Glad to have amused you, what can I say? I’m a woman, we’re often full of contradictions. 🙂

  14. 14 Brian Saturday, March 27, 2010 at 10:10 pm

    There are well defined methods of ascertaining the trustworthiness of the transmission of texts (which Telephone is the antithesis of).

    Around 150 to 350 or so, missionaries went out and wound up establishing Christian communities that then lost contact with each other for centuries. When researchers compare the texts that those disparate communities were maintaining, they find that the texts were not altered over those spans of time.

    When the Dead Sea scrolls were discovered they were found to contain a complete copy of Isaiah that was 1,000 years older than the oldest copy that existed up to that point. When compared, there were 14 discrepancies between the texts. 7 of those discrepancies were due to grammatical changes over that time (such as we now say “this needs sugar,” but 100 years ago they said “This must needs sugar”). 4 or 5 more were due to spelling changes (such as theatre v. theater). Of the genuine discrepancies remaining (and there were some), none of them touched on any of the actual teaching in the book. That is a lot better of a record than any game of Telephone, showing that they are really not even related.

    My point (which I didn’t think was all that obscure), is that telephone is subject to human nature and our communication skills, or lack thereof, but textual transmission is not. Telephone is a word whispered one time, with no allowance of having it repeated. Scripture is both written down and memorized.

    Both Jewish scribes and Christians have deep, deep reverence for the text (because they believe it is the very word of God). Jewish scribes, when copying a text would count the letters from the beginning of each page and the end of each page to the middle of that page. They counted the letters from the end and beginning of the book to the middle. They also counted the words both directions. Before they wrote the name of God (YHWH) they had a ritual to go through, and would use a new, never-used-before quill. People with a reverence like this for a text don’t alter it to promote agendas…

    At their Bar Mitzvah the Jewish boys of the time of Jesus would have to pass this test: a knife was driven into a scroll of proverbs. From the point that the tip came to a stop, they would have to accurately recite the remainder of the book. You think they wouldn’t notice if someone slipped in a change?!?

    In addition to that, I believe that the Bible is supernaturally superintended by God, obviating the influence of huamn nature and lack of communication skills that other tests are more subject to…

     

    psa,

    I wasn’t saying that there was only one potential source of the supernatural, only that what Dr. Prole had said seemed to allow for none. Plus, if there really is only one answer to something/anything, then saying that there is only that one answer is not arrogant, but accurate. Because of that, saying that there was only one source of the supernatural (if I had said that) is not automatically wrong, nor arrogant.

    The Jews     say that there is only one God.
    Christians   say that there is only one God.
    Muslim       say that there is only one God.
    The Druze    say that there is only one God.
    Zoroastrians say that there is only one God.
    Bahá’ís believe that there is only one God.

    But you say all of these are arrogant?

    Regarding

    …jeeziz [cute…] makes no appearance among the fastidious records of the [R]omans…

    that’s not even true. Josephus was a Jewish slave, owned by a Roman. That who owned him Roman used Josephus as a historian. So what Josephus wrote was a Roman record, and Jesus is mentioned in those records.

    I never even intimated that the stories in the Bible are true because they are in the Bible. I know that most here don’t believe the Bible is trustworthy, so why would I? It is a totally different topic.

     

    [T]he [B]ible has only “held together” for millennia as a result of fear, ignorance & intimidation. [B]elieving in it doesn’t make it true.

    And disbelieving in it doesn’t make it false; same/same.

    But the idea that the Bible has “held together” as a result of ignorance, is realy verging on ignorance itself.

    Oxford started as a monastery.

    Yale traces its roots to 17th-century clergymen who sought to establish a college to train clergy and political leaders for the colony.

    Hugh Balsham, Bishop of Ely, founded Peterhouse in 1284, Cambridge’s first college.

    The number of people who have studied the Bible as a career — many brilliant scholars — is really quite large. To paste these individuals with lables like “ignorant,” “intimidated” or afraid… well… it just strains credulity. I know it is a popular pass time in militantly atheistic circles, but it is just whistling past the graveyard.

    Genetics arose from work at monasteries. Hospitals, as a concept arose form monks/knights called the HospitalLers.

     

    sun still not revolving around [E]arth which is still not centre of universe.

    Keep in mind, it was not just the church that opposed the move from geo-centrism to helio-centrism, and then opposed the demise of helio-centrism. EVERYBODY did! It just happens to be popular to solely blame the church for that; you ahouldn’t fall for the propaganda… (At least that’s my advice.)

    Anyway, time for bed… G’night.

  15. 15 psa Sunday, March 28, 2010 at 4:13 am

    all of the monotheists believe in one single solitary sky bully? gosh how startling. are they ignorant? if one considers baseless superstition ignorant, yes. yes they are. now one could make a case that the christians aren’t monotheists at all but that they’ve done a fun job of hiding their paganism in p.r. you have god the big daddy, the angry sky bully with plenty of insecurities, you have his son the not-so-human pin cushion and zombie and then there’s casper the spectral rapist.

    but it doesn’t stop there, does it? what about satan? is he not the god of the underworld surrounded by his demons and dark demi-gods? then there are the angels and cherubim and the other pantheistic characters wafting about. the angels are supposedly imbued with enormous power, eternal life etc. minor deities all and worshipped as such. the fact is that much of “christianity” is a cobbled together mash of borrowed and co-opted superstitions leaning heavily on the greek and roman pantheons and stealing widely from other pagan traditions as it spread. let’s face it easter is a pagan fertility festival. the symbology has nothing to do with the fictional carpenter and finds it’s true roots in matriarchal festivals under such names as ester, eostra, ostara. bunny rabbits and eggs, just woven throughout the gospels… er, not so much,

    in truth the christian god is a hodge podge creation of borrowed and swiped mythos. but thank golly goodness that the monks went about and invented learning and clinics and such. i hope someone sent a note to the chinese to let them know that their ancient medicinal studies and efforts derived from a bunch of characters that would eventually be born elsewhere. and i’m sure all of the asiatic peoples will applaud that western innovation, the seat of higher learning. i’m sure they were delighted to import schools from the distant western future. their ancient philosophers and teachers will have been thrilled at the bounty of xtian generosity. while you’re applauding the noble achievements of education courtesy of your fancy god and his pals, don’t forget to lay a blood red rose on his altar for the rivers of blood spilled in purest hatred and ignorance, all in his glory. the inquisitions and the auto de fe, the dark ages of hatred and cruelty that his worship engendered. let’s not forget the crusades and sanctified mass murders that call out his name in glory.

    as for josephus, baby zeus gets two passing mentions, one of which is roundly disputed, in the writings of josephus who was not born until a few years after your zombie god apparently snuck out of his cave and flew off. as for the long purity of the text, well bollocks. there are numerous gnostic texts that have been suppressed or excised, rumours are that the vatican has squirrelled away chnks of the ancient scriptures and there are plenty of scholars, christian and otherwise who indicate that the bible has evolved over time (heh heh)

  16. 16 Dr. Prole Sunday, March 28, 2010 at 6:09 am

    Just because someone wrote a text a couple of thousand years ago, and someone copied it word for word, that still doesn’t make it true or in any way prove it true. Sorry Brian, you’ll never make a believer of me. Much heartier than you have tried.

    Next?

  17. 17 Dr. Prole Sunday, March 28, 2010 at 6:14 am

    And besides. We’re not talking about ancient texts written in dead languages. We’re talking about the Bible, usually King James, but also all the versions put into the vernacular for, say, teens, or people who don’t do too well with big words. Translated for us by people who have an agenda. And who’s to say the writers of the original texts didn’t have an agenda of their own? “Yeah I went into a cave for a bit and guess what? GOD told me some stuff!”. Sure.

  18. 18 Cornelius T.Zen Sunday, March 28, 2010 at 8:48 am

    Good morrow, all!
    Mr. Jones went to church, never missed a Sunday
    Mr. Jones went to Hell for what he did on Monday – attribution unknown, quoted by a Catholic priest in the 60’s somewhen
    When Jesus tells you to be a beacon, does He actually say, let people see you pray? Or is He saying, let people see you being kind, being honest, being understanding?
    Get your flak jacket, Brian, you got incoming.
    The Bible is not The Word of God. It is a book, passed down through many centuries of translation and interpretation, full of words, about God.
    The Word of God is what we are made of. It is stardust, it is cosmic radiation, it is millennia of millenia of evolution, it is quantum string theory, it is all the resonance of all the dark matter of all the massive and unfathomable depths of space and time. It is far larger and far more wondrous than any mere collection of paper and ink. It is, at last measurement, about 13.5 billion light years in any given direction. And, for all we know, we are nothing more than just another marble in God’s little velvet bag.
    BTW, birds in the wild do not shit where they eat, and neither do fish in the ocean. They have more sense than that, in many ways, more sense than we do, and God made it that way.
    Yeah, I believe in God. Just not your God. Your God is petty, cruel, capricious, paranoid, neurotic, secretive, vainglorious, schizophrenic, autistic, sadistic…but He loves you! And He needs…money! Can create the world in six days, just can’t handle money!
    If reading the Bible makes you want to lash out amd make other people bleed, just to satisfy your fit of pique, just to make Ares a trifle less peckish, then why be surprised when other people call you out for what you appear to be?
    The order in the universe, from the tiniest quivering quantum string to the black holes way in back of beyond of what we can see, makes me think, yeah, there just might be a Great Cosmic Mind behind all this, though not necessarily so.
    For all we know, we are merely manifestations of the Hyperparticle – a single particle that zips around so fast that it forms, momentarily, all forms of matter and energy that can be perceived and measured at any given picosecond. And that Hyperparticle, moving at immeasureable speed, just may be something that can be called…God…
    For all we know – CTZen

  19. 19 toujoursdan Sunday, March 28, 2010 at 9:18 am

    I’m a Christian. I read the Bible on a 3 year cycle.

    Of course there are contradictions. There are factual contradictions, there are historical contradictions and there are theological contradictions. It was written over 1,500 years by hundreds of different writers and redactors, in 3 different languages, to dozens to different audiences, addressing dozens of different political, cultural and societal contexts.

    The Christians who say there are no contradictions are either not reading it carefully, or going outside of the text (i.e. pulling something out of the tail) in a lame attempt to harmonize it.

    That said, the expectation that one is supposed use the Bible like a western encyclopaedia is also absurd. It’s an evolving story where the ancient Jews change and their perception of God changed.

  20. 20 JJ Sunday, March 28, 2010 at 10:10 am

    CTZen

    I love Jesus, but I drink a little

    Best line ever!

  21. 21 JJ Sunday, March 28, 2010 at 10:12 am

    phatbiker

    If I was there I’d be tempted to let rip a loud fart.
    PFFFFT, amen to that bro!!

    😆 Abomination!!! 😆

  22. 22 JJ Sunday, March 28, 2010 at 10:14 am

    Brian

    Ex-fetus Matthew 5:14 — 16: You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but [they put it] on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

    I guess that means something to someone, but not to me.

    I love Jesus, too; and I drink a little, too.

    You need to drink MORE.

  23. 23 JJ Sunday, March 28, 2010 at 10:38 am

    toujoursdan

    The Christians who say there are no contradictions are either not reading it carefully, or going outside of the text (i.e. pulling something out of the tail) in a lame attempt to harmonize it.

    This is one of the things I dislike about biblical literalists — they cherry pick the parts they like and ignore the parts they don’t (or the parts that are too absurd even for them), and interpret it the way they like.

    I’ve read that one of the reasons the Catholic church insists on the celibacy of priests is because St.Paul once said “It is good for a man not to marry”, and Catholics accept that as a standalone statement without looking at its context.

  24. 24 JJ Sunday, March 28, 2010 at 10:40 am

    psa

    the bible has only “held together” for millennia as a result of fear, ignorance and intimidation. believing in it doesn’t make it true.

    Exactly.

  25. 25 Cornelius T.Zen Sunday, March 28, 2010 at 11:44 am

    Good morrow, all!
    One of the best quotes I ever read was from Dorothy Parker.
    At the moment, I cannot seem to find the exact text, but I believe it ran:
    “Last night, I read the Book of Job. God does not come out of it looking very good, does He?”
    If that is what Brian insists is the true nature of God, then it is no wonder there are atheists among the educated.
    There is one more that I like:
    “If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people that He gave it to.” I think she actually paraphrased that one, but it works.
    Be kind to one another. Even to Brian. After all, he knows not what he does. Which is just about the kindest thing we can say about one another.
    One should always be drunk – CTZen

  26. 26 Brian Sunday, March 28, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    The book of Job was a really, really big challenge for me when I first became a Christian (when I was 35 yrs old). And lest you think I am exaggerating, or that I take living life in a cavalier way, I didn’t feel I could receive food from God without thanking Him for it, because of how that would make me feel about myself. But I didn’t see how I could thank a God who could treat Job like that, after having declared Job righteous. And to top things off, I was convinced that God was the creator of this universe, leaving nowhere else to go, and no one else to turn to. I was miserable!

    I got in touch with several different ministries who had presentations on the local Christian radio station (not the “professional wrestlers of Christianity” that you see on “Christian” television — yeah, right! — but real expositors of the Bible. Either they didn’t understand my dilemma, or they didn’t know the answer that would help me, because their responses were things like, “Oh, I think the Book of Job is actually quite wonderful.”

    What finally started to turn it around was Job 42:6 where Job himself repents. Apparently Job — who was actually there whereas we are not — recognized that repentance on his part was appropriate. Now, who am I to come along maybe 3,000 years after the fact and gainsay him?

    Though Job had much to commend him, he also had need of repentance which he himself recognized.

     

    … Brian … knows not what he does.

    I suppose that might be (I mean, how would one who knows not what they do know that they know not, since they know not, hmmm?). But I see very well that I know better than many whom I see about me.

  27. 27 Janus Sunday, March 28, 2010 at 10:33 pm

    Brian. Pay attention. This won’t take long:

    You are taking yourself waaaaaaaaaay too seriously, dude.

    None of us do.

    Take a chill pill or somethin’ before you stroke out, ‘kay?

  28. 28 Brian Monday, March 29, 2010 at 6:54 am

    Now come on: You’re blood pressure is plenty high on just about all these issues…

    But thanks for your concern; that’s nice of you.

  29. 29 joe agnost Monday, March 29, 2010 at 7:19 am

    brian wrote: “Keep in mind, it was not just the church that opposed the move from geo-centrism to helio-centrism, and then opposed the demise of helio-centrism. EVERYBODY did! It just happens to be popular to solely blame the church for that”

    But the church is the only one who claims to “know” the truth. Why – no ~how~ – could they make such an obvious (and easy to point out) mistake? Was god sleeping that day and missed it?

    I thought you claimed the bible was always right Brian… care to reconsider?


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