Sinead OConnor on Catholic Church abuse scandal

Interesting interview last night as Rachel Maddow got Sinead O’Connor’s thoughts on the continually-mushrooming Catholic church child abuse scandals:

Vodpod videos no longer available.

(The Washington Post ran an article by O’Connor on this topic a few weeks ago.)

11 Responses to “Sinead OConnor on Catholic Church abuse scandal”


  1. 1 Bruce Sunday, April 25, 2010 at 9:44 am

    Sinead has the experience and conviction to say the things I want to. As an Atheist gay man, people can pass me off as bitter or uninformed. I have literally thousands of links and starred items just on the topic of Catholic sex abuse scandals and the Vatican’s reactions. So much information that it’s hard to put it all together, but I have the resources to put together a case that is absolutely definitive.

    But I’m not Catholic, and I don’t share her belief in the holy spirit, which I applaud when it’s approached in the right way. But she can speak from within, and she does, and she’s been doing for far longer than most of us, she is the voice that needs to be heard today.

    Guess I better post this on my blog, good post, JJ.

  2. 2 JJ Sunday, April 25, 2010 at 11:11 am

    Bruce – I was most impressed with the fact that Sinead O’Connor speaks from the perspective of a Catholic who feels that her faith has been highjacked by a corrupt, perverse and medieval hierarchy. They need to take back their church and bring it into the 21st century. (But good luck with that.)

  3. 3 RossK Sunday, April 25, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    I was also impressed by the way Ms. O’Connor challenged Americans to use their real (as opposed to faux) exceptionalism to become the difference maker on this issue.

    Brilliant that.

    .

  4. 4 Bina Sunday, April 25, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    I remember how she was made out to be crazy the first time(s) she spoke out against these abuses. Where are those people now, the ones who called her crazy then?

    (crickets)

  5. 5 apophaticattic Monday, April 26, 2010 at 10:33 pm

    She sure has a way with words. “this makes it look like the house of the holy spirit is a haven for moral criminals”… something like that anyway. Refreshing perspective.

  6. 6 Joe Tuesday, June 22, 2010 at 4:16 am

    My guess is that it is a wasted hope for the Church to change.
    There is far too much old theology involved like the Augustinian
    theology, soemthing people are not really aware of. Even though
    once somebody begins to read about Augustins theology, he will
    recognize the creator of the horrible God, with all doom and gloom,
    doctrines and demanded obedience immediately.
    For those who have some faith left there is in any case the
    possiblity to convert from the Church to God. That’s solveing those
    problems.
    http://socratesbooks.blogspot.com/2010/06/church-scandals-and-vaticans-handling.html

  7. 7 Brian Thursday, June 24, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Joe,

        It appears to me — just my opinion from what I read above — that your take on Augustine is subject to presuppositions that cause you to see his conclusions in such a negative light.

      Plus, propositions such as “the house of the holy spirit is a haven for moral criminals” does not in anywise whatsoever derive from anything Augustine had to say.  I mean, the concept that Augustinian theology leads to or supports immorality would be a deranged concept.

      Though it is possible that those who agree with Augustine might also act immorally or support immorality.  But to use that to say something about Augustine is as sound as taking a case where someone who agrees with Augustine breaks the speed limit, and therefore Augustinian theology leads to traffic fatalities.

      Roman Catholics are not the only group finding Augustine enlightening.  If Augustinian theology were central to this outcome here, you would think that any group having that incorporated into their doctrine would show the same results.  But of course, that is not the case.  Ergo, the cause(s) lie(s) somewhere other than at Augustine’s feet.

  8. 8 Joe Thursday, June 24, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    @Brian,

    at least you got manners, that’s the reason why I am responding
    to your post.
    There is one aspect, apart from others, that I don’t like at
    all about Augustin and his theology. It is the way children
    for instance kind of get it forcefed without ever being told
    that it is not Jesus and the Bible what they get but something
    completely different. Nor are adult people ever told about
    but rather being fooled along with. They often suffer from it without knowing what their problem really is, where it comes
    from. For instance the ideology of the cross, the focus on
    Jesus’ death and the demand that people simply sacrfice their lifes. Anti -semitism is closely to that, for instance. It
    definitely was not the intention of Jesus that others have
    themselves crossed themselves as well. He wouldn’t be the
    saviour. He did it in order to spare others from such
    tragedy. That’s one point. The RCC has a very strange way to present something.

    And then comes the other thing: lay people are simply not in
    a position to chose for themselves on an informed bases, when
    they can consider really laid back, beyond all doctrines,
    because nobody ever tells them much about it.
    Bible bashing, finger-jabbing and so forth. Their
    is simply no freedom of choice. It is a completely different
    when somebody knowingly finds Augustins theology (or maybe just
    parts) of it enlightening.

  9. 9 Brian Monday, June 28, 2010 at 5:47 pm

        I wonder whether you would be willing to flesh out “There is one aspect … I don’t like … about Augustin and his theology.  It’s the way children, for instance, kind of get it force-fed without ever being told that it is not Jesus and the Bible what they get but something completely different.”

        In what way are they not getting Jesus and the Bible?  Or perhaps what would be different if they were?

        When you say this, you leave out the noun: “Nor are adult people ever told about but rather being fooled along with.”  Not told about what?

        In “They often suffer from it without knowing what their problem really is, where it comes from,” they suffer from what?  What is it that you would say that their problem is that they are unaware of?

        You say, “For instance the ideology of the cross, the focus on Jesus’ death and the demand that people simply sacrfice their lifes.”  There are two topics there, and I just want to address the more theological one, the focus on the cross and Jesus’ death.  Though it is true that His resurrection is very important, it was His death on the cross that opened the way to heaven, by, as Paul says in Colossians 2:13 and 14, “When you [and by analogy this means any of us] were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us.  And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”  The forgiveness that is available through substitutionary atonement is central to Christianity, as is the new life that that sacrifice permits, as demonstrated in the resurrection.  How can you have balanced, legitimate Christianity without strong focus on the cross, since what occurred on the cross is what made Christianity possible?

        Now, you have a kind of a quandary in this:

        “And then comes the other thing: lay people are simply not in a position to chose for themselves on an informed bases, when they can consider really laid back, beyond all doctrines, because nobody ever tells them much about it.”

        First you say “ay people are simply not in a position to chose for themselves on an informed [basis],” then you say “because nobody ever tells them much about it.”  I am a certified Bible teacher with Precept ministries.  A really important emphasis of Precepts’ studies is teaching individuals to find out what the Bible say, for themselves.  It counterpoints the traditional churchgoer’s position where God gives the Bible, a preacher interprets it, and tell the congregation what he has found.  Better than no contact with the Bible, to be sure, but it does put an intermediary in there.

        With Precepts studies you go through a book looking for what the author says about himself, and make a list.  You go through again, making a list of what is said to the recipients.  You look for a single sentence that describes the purpose of that book, such as 1 John 5:13, where John explicitly says: “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.”  That sets the context of the book.  He wrote with a purpose, and so, as you read what he wrote, knowing that purpose will inform how you receive what he wrote.

    Anyway, the idea is to do the opposite of having somebody else tell you about what is written, but to discern that for yourself.

    But, having done that, people are then encouraged to read what others (which would include Augustine) have had to say, reading commentaries and so forth.  The Bible is a very rich book, and no one person can get all that is in it without the help of others.  This is why theology continues to be refined, with such newer concepts as Premillennialism and Dispensationalism.  The earlier believers worked out the implications of some aspects of the Bible (trinitarianism, salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus alone, the heresy of purchasing indulgences and so forth), leaving them not enough time to work out the sorts of things being worked out today.  Augustine played a very important role in that.

    I am looking forward to your response.  You really have piqued my curiosity.

  10. 10 Brian Wednesday, June 30, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    Are you there, Joe?


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