Ayn Rand, abortion & the tea party

Teabaggers, take note:

This is what’s always intrigued me about the tea party movement — the unlikely  fusion of such diametrically opposed ideologies as libertarianism and social conservatism.  The Paulites and the Palinites, together at last…

But maybe not for long.  Now that the movement is a year old pollsters have started gathering data on it, and it reveals a decided ideological divide:

The results, however, suggest a distinct fault line that runs through the tea party activist base, characterized by two wings led by the politicians who ranked highest when respondents were asked who “best exemplifies the goals of the tea party movement” — former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas), a former GOP presidential candidate.  […]

When asked to choose from a list of candidates for president in 2012, Palin and Paul also finished one-two — with Palin at 15 percent and Paul at 14 percent.

The bottom line:

Asked to rate their level of anger about 22 issues on a scale of one (not angry at all) to five (extremely angry), the issue that drew the most anger: the growing national debt. The least: courts granting same-sex couples the right to marry. Twenty-four percent said they’re “not at all” upset about gay marriage.

So it looks like half of them are genuine small-government types who couldn’t care less about peoples’ personal lives, and the other half are social conservatives along for the ride, because really they’re pretty copacetic with big government overreach as long as it’s into peoples’ bedrooms.  It will be interesting to see how such a house divided holds itself together over social issues as they move forward into election season.

42 Responses to “Ayn Rand, abortion & the tea party”


  1. 1 Bleatmop Saturday, May 1, 2010 at 10:47 am

    For all the messed up things Ayn believes in, she’s at least right on some issues. Her books still suck though.

  2. 2 balbulican Saturday, May 1, 2010 at 11:32 am

    There is no coherent Tea Party platform. It’s a tantrum disguised as a movement.

  3. 3 Brian Saturday, May 1, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    For all the messed up things Ayn believes in, she’s at least right on some issues. Her books still suck though.

       I laughed out loud when I saw that! HA! That’s funny! ROTFLMAO. Here I am thinking, she was right about a lot of things, but not this. But she did reiterate my central assertion: the whole debate hinges on the status of the embryo/fetus/blastula/zygote: Is it/is it not a human being? If you recognize it to be so, that will put into one of the two camps. If you recognize it to not be, you will be in the other. And sometimes the camp you want to be in will be the effective cause of the position you take on that central question.

    …   government intrusion into personal lives   …   fusion of … diametrically opposed ideologies   …   national debt   …   gay marriage   …

       I am not involved in it, but from the outside, I recognize that the acronym stands for “Taxed Enough Already.” That would seem to indicate that the focus of that movement would be taxes, and further, that there would be libertarians, liberals, conservatives, Paul supporters, Palin supporters, Romney supporters, homosexuals, bisexuals, heterosexuals, musicians, animal lovers, college students, homemakers, engineers, ad infinitim, who share that they think taxes are too high.

       Discovering that there’s a lot of diversity in areas other than taxes does not seem significant to me. Though I have heard that some people want to turn the movement into a political party, I don’t see that happening, and I don’t think it should.

    You say “it will be interesting to see how such a house divided holds itself together…” But I don’t think it is a house (which would be akin to a party) at all, divided or otherwise. If it were a political party, then the details you produced would seem to portend utter failure. But it isn’t.

    I suspect you would find a similar differentiation of political opinion among members of the NRA, but it has held together very well for quite some time now. I would think it would be a similar story over at MADD.

  4. 4 brebis noire Saturday, May 1, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    So you’re saying, Brian, that the Tea party movement is just an anti-tax interest group (like the NRA or MADD) rather than a genuine political movement. Interesting.

    Also: Rand’s books are for people who hate novels and literature. And reading. And books. They’re for people who like hating.

  5. 5 ck Saturday, May 1, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    JJ, Great find, that Ayn Rand video! I may use it for a future posting.

    I have to say though, that I’m not surprised. In Objectivism (Randian philosophy; not Libertarianism: differences may seem minute enough to think they’re interchangeable though: discussion for another time; I’m still researching the differences between the two myself), man, the individual is his/her own hero. Thus, they don’t believe in God; they are Atheist. God is an entity we can’t see, hear or touch. The belief in God is mysticism, thus going against that whole individual is the only hero in his/her own life.

    The embryo, as she pointed out, is an entity, not a person; again, as such, should not be afforded rights of any kind, especially superceding those of man (or woman as the case may be).

    I personally am not a fan of her’s. I don’t subscribe to her philosophy, as it’s unattainable. If one read any biographies of her’s she too didn’t exactly practice what she preached.

    However, she does seem to be making a come back, isn’t she? Many of my friends and acquaintainces are reading and Fountain Head, as well as researching her life, as I have.

    There is this acquaintance of my family who is a big Ayn Rand fan, but oddly, he roots more for See Sawah Run than for Ron Paul; weird, eh?

  6. 6 Rob F Saturday, May 1, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    I tried reading one of Rand’s novels (Atlas Shrugged) and found that it had a ranty, soapboxy feel with generally two dimensional characters. This quote from Kung Fu Monkey pretty much gets what I thought of Atlas Shrugged:

    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”

  7. 7 Rob F Saturday, May 1, 2010 at 9:37 pm

    Oops, that should be one-dimensional characters. 😦

  8. 8 Bleatmop Sunday, May 2, 2010 at 9:48 am

    Rob F – Love the quote. Fortunately for me I read about orcs when I was 14.

  9. 9 Brian Sunday, May 2, 2010 at 11:40 am

    So you’re saying, Brian, that the Tea party movement is just an anti-tax interest group (like the NRA or MADD) rather than a genuine political movement. Interesting.

    It looks like that’s what it is. If I am right, and they try to do more than that (at least very much more), they will fail at what appears to be their main reason for existing, and they will fail at any larger attempts. It seems to me…

    I don’t think I would say that they are not a movement. A really wide-spread anti-tax sentiment would probably be accurately described as a movement. It just does not seem to be a large of a movement (if it is indeed that) as some involved would like it to be.

  10. 10 JJ Sunday, May 2, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    Bleatmop – Ayn Rand’s books thrilled me when I was 16, but for good or ill, as you age you discover real life is a lot more nuanced than that 😉

  11. 11 JJ Sunday, May 2, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    balb – Exactly — I am just wondering if this divide on social issues will be one of the things that makes the teabaggers themselves realize that. The only thing that I can see that really holds them together is Obama Derangement Syndrome.

  12. 12 JJ Sunday, May 2, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    brian

    I am not involved in it,

    Here is your mission, should you choose to accept it: go to a tea party, take pictures, talk to people and report back. I would honestly like to hear what these people have to say… I’d go to one myself if there were any up here.

    but from the outside, I recognize that the acronym stands for “Taxed Enough Already.” That would seem to indicate that the focus of that movement would be taxes, and further, that there would be libertarians, liberals, conservatives, Paul supporters, Palin supporters, Romney supporters, homosexuals, bisexuals, heterosexuals, musicians, animal lovers, college students, homemakers, engineers, ad infinitim, who share that they think taxes are too high.

    *Everyone* thinks their taxes are too high. I suspect that very few of these people would be willing to give up the niceties of life that they enjoy because they pay taxes: roads, transit systems, schools, cops, firemen, the military, etc etc etc.

    As for being “taxed enough already”, 90% of US citizens (including you, buddy) got a tax CUT this year, thanks to the Kenyan Usurper. So that doesn’t really cut any ice with me.

  13. 13 Mark From Slap Sunday, May 2, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    Holy crap; I agree with Ayn Rand on something?

  14. 14 JJ Sunday, May 2, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    brebis – Rand’s books are for adolescents 😉

  15. 15 JJ Sunday, May 2, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    ck – Ayn Rand was making kind of a comeback for awhile when the tea party thing first got going. I don’t know how popular she still is, now that people have figured out she despised religion and was for a lot of things that some of the teabaggers are against. Or maybe they just figured out that Going Galt is more than stiffing the waitress for a tip.

  16. 16 JJ Monday, May 3, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Mark – There’s a first time for everything!

  17. 17 JJ Monday, May 3, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    Rob F

    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”

    That’s awesome 8)

  18. 18 kenny merriken Tuesday, May 11, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    Take a guess as to what percent of our national debt ceiling was accumulated between 1791 and January 22, 1973. Research the data please. See if there is a correlation between Supreme court ruling Roe V. Wade and abortion and the rapid increase in national debt since the ruling. If your answer was above 5% you were too high. See if you can disprove the following theory and prediction: Theory: End abortion nationally or face national bankruptcy. Prediction: Congress will vote to increase the national debt ceiling before the next presidential election if abortion continues to be a nationally acceptable practice.

  19. 19 Reality.Bites Tuesday, May 11, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    Kenny you idiot child, take a guess what percentage of my orgasms were achieved between 1791 and January 22, 1973. If your answer was above 5% you were too high. See if you can disprove the following theory and prediction: Theory: Keep abortion in the United States or I’ll as sexually frustrated as your mother must have been to have had the sex with a jackass that resulted in your conception. Prediction: What Congress does or doesn’t do with the American debt ceiling before the next presidential election will have as much to do with my orgasms as it does with abortion.

    P.S. This is a Canadian blog, you imperialistic piece of shit.

  20. 20 J. A. Baker Tuesday, May 11, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    ck, you forgot to close the italics tag!

  21. 21 JJ Tuesday, May 11, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    JAB – I had to go in and take all the italics tags out… she went berserk with the tags and it blew the entire thread into italics 😯

  22. 22 JJ Tuesday, May 11, 2010 at 9:37 pm

    kenny – Correlation doesn’t = causation. Nice try. (Okay, not really.)

  23. 23 JJ Tuesday, May 11, 2010 at 9:37 pm

    RB 😆 😆 😆

    You’re in fine form tonight, I see! 😉

  24. 24 Dr. Prole Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 6:37 am

    Yanno what does correlate with legalized abortion in the US? A dramatic drop in crime. So by Kenny’s reasoning – make abortion illegal again and it’ll unleash the super predators and we can all live in constant fear of violent crime. Stick that in your Freakonomics pipe and smoke it, Kennykins.

  25. 25 Reality.Bites Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 9:06 am

    JJ, it’s lucky Roe. V. Wade was in 1973 and not 1975, because then my orgasm balance would be 50/50 instead of 5/95! 😀

  26. 26 Brian Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 9:17 am

    Also, just after the Roe decision, Detroit stopped making muscle cars.  I miss them!

     

    On a separate note, I must say, it just warms my heart to see the brotherly love that some here exude. Tolerance, love, respect — it is a thing of beauty, to be sure.

    Spelling out the sexual situation of the mother of someone you disagree with, asserting that the father of someone you disagree with was a jack ass, and categorizing someone you disagree with as a piece of shit…   I only took one class in debate (in high school), so I guess I never was taught these college-level debate strategies. But apparently they represent fine form, so all I can say is, “Who knew?”

    Clearly kenny merriken failed to establish anything historical. As I read the post I was wondering what the point was supposed to be. But “piece of shit?” Not so much…

    National debt ceilings are not “accumulated,” in the first place.

    A correlation between a Supreme Court ruling & the national debt is not significant unless a connection can be established.

    I see no reason tho think that the prevalence of abortion & national debt or bankruptcy are related in any fashion, however slight.

    Predicting that congress will vote to increase the debt ceiling is somewhat akin to predicting that the sun will rise in the morning. And I doubt that either the raising of the debt ceiling or the rising of the sun are results of abortion policies or quantities.

    But all that shows bad reasoning skills, not that a person is a piece of shit, that their father was a jack ass or that their mother was either sexually frustrated, sexually satisfied, or really any other thing about that person’s parents.

  27. 27 Reality.Bites Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:05 am

    Brian – fuck off.

    I’m not going to waste politeness on a spamming idiot who has never read this blog and has no intention of ever returning to read a response.

    Other people might be interested in “debate” with obsessed fucks like you and Kenny. I’m not. There’s no point to discussion with you. Your minds are both closed and empty, filled with religious dogma.

    So instead I make it plain, in the most direct way possible, that I hold you in complete contempt, and if my way of doing it happens to amuse me and some other people at your expense, well that’s just your cross to bear.

  28. 28 Brian Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 11:59 am

    “…waste politeness…”   That kind of sums it up (as if politeness came in limited quantities).

    “I’m not … interested in “debate” with obsessed [individuals] … There’s no point to discussion with you … I hold you in complete contempt …”   Well, at least I have your sample of an open mind to try to steer by.

      It seems apparent to me that you are just an elitist.   You hold those you disagree with in contempt, and only deign to be polite to “the chosen.”   Those who are not elitist hold the positions of those with whom they strongly disagree in contempt, while holding the wrong-headed individual himself in respect.   This is a mark of being civilized, as opposed to merely living in a civilization.   Those who are less-than-fully civilized might behave in an uncivilized fashion, but then recognize their misbehavior when attention is drawn to it.   But you flaunt it instead.

      I’m pretty sure you will fail to get it even yet, but, as a civilized man, I am obligated to at least show you the respect to point it out.

      Your incivility is no burden to me, other than leading me to grieve for you.   I’m genuinely sorry that you carry such a load of rage.

     

      Let me ask you a question.   There are many who say that “war is not the answer,” (without saying what the question is), asserting that leaders need to instead work out their differences diplomatically.

      What happens when one of the leaders takes a position against his adversary that looks like yours toward me?   There certainly would be no progress made through negotiations in a case like that.

      If people like you and me cannot “get along” sufficiently to treat those with whom we strongly disagree with at the least civility when there is no money involved, no land involved, no hegemony involved, what sliver of hope could there be for international leaders when all those things — and more — are involved?

      People say “Think globally, act locally.”   Is this how it’s done?   “Fuck off!,  I’m not going to waste politeness on [you]!,  I’m not interested in … discussion with you.,  I hold you in complete contempt!”?

  29. 29 Frank Frink Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    Brian, it’s the internet. Get over it…

    … and yourself and your sanctimony.

  30. 30 Reality.Bites Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Or as I said the first time, Brian, fuck off. You’re scum – human garbage. And that’s exactly how I’m going to treat you.

    If you’re wondering why, take a look at some of my posts, get to know me and where I’m coming from, and maybe you’ll understand why I think you’re absolute filth.

  31. 31 JJ Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Brian – Be nice to RB, he’s one of my ♥ faves ♥ 😉

  32. 32 JJ Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    I have to go to work now, I expect all you kids to behave 😆

  33. 33 JJ Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    FF (another one of my ♥ faves)

    Brian, it’s the internet. Get over it…

    someone is wrong on the internet!!!!!!!!!

  34. 34 Brian Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    Brian, it’s the internet. Get over it.

    Doesn’t seem a good excuse to me.  We all worry about road rage, and so on.  Well, this incivility and tantrum throwing on the internet are both a symptoms and contributors to that.

    … and your sanctimony.

    Disagreeing is not sanctimonious.  Sanctimony is defined in one place as “The quality of being hypocritically devout.”  I’m not a hypocrite; one person actually wrote “At least you’re consistent.”  If there is one thing a hypocrite is not, it’s consistent.  Plus, my devotion, or devoutness is genuine.  You don’t share it, but that doesn’t establish that it is hypocritical devoutness.

     

    Be nice to RB … ”  I thought it was pretty nice to try to help someone while they were treating me like that — perhaps I should get one of those new medals for conspicuous restraint!  I thought I raised a pretty significant question about diplomacy v. war, and so on.

  35. 35 Dr. Prole Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    Blah blah blah blah….blah blah blah. My GOD Brian you are tedious.

  36. 37 Kenny Merriken Monday, May 17, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    I did some looking around for some research that correlates national laws that allow abortion and national debt. http://www.lifenews.com/nat4440.html
    is my answer. Do some research in to the Word of God, the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Greece debt crisis and their abortion rate. It is a pattern.
    END ABORTION NATIONALLY OR FACE NATIONAL BANKRUPTCY.
    The national debt clock is ticking. Kenny

  37. 38 Bleatmop Monday, May 17, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    I’m now enacting Poe’s Law.

  38. 39 Shade Monday, May 17, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    Wow Kevin that’s one of the silliest arguments I’ve ever heard. Following that logic I could say the reverse, that abortion helps the economy because the women who get them are able to work and don’t have to go onto maternity leave. They’re also not inclined to be stay at home mothers since they have no children, meaning they will work.

    But of course that’s just as silly. Hate to break it to you Kev don’t believe everything you read, people will lie. Even the people on your side of the fence to you, to get you to do their bidding.

    In fact what you have there is facetious reasoning, poorly thought out, badly linked and all circumstantial. Do try to find a proper argument next time instead of trying to scare people with national debt so soon after the recession.

  39. 40 JJ Monday, May 17, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    KM – “Lifenews” isn’t a legit source. Buh bye

  40. 41 Paul Friday, May 13, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    Ayn Rand is the basis for contemporary Satanism. Both argue that the strong and so-called well deserving should reap the rewards. A point is missed in that not everybody is recognized for their worth or even permitted to be the best that they can be. It is already stated as fact that who you know is the first factor in determining employment in most corporations. I have seen this myself.
    This is why society needs a welfare system so as to balance out the distribution of goods.
    I think many people believe that socialism means the right to be lazy and robbing Peter to pay Paul. It is really unfortunate that the liberal left ; affirmative action; the old school hippies etc., have created such a mess out of this.
    So I’m a bit off topic hear but felt the need to make a point central to AR philosophy. I am reading her book “The Virtue of Selfishness” at the moment and I personally have not formed a definite opinion of her as of yet.
    The problem may be that the world has gone global and that entity USA is like a self preservation virus and you and I are the wheels that turn it.

  41. 42 Kim W. Saturday, May 28, 2011 at 5:54 am

    Ayn Rand was incredible. She not only stated what was in the video but declared you can’t give MORE rights to a ‘potential’ life than to one existing. She said the only argument that could be made would be once the fetus becomes viable. So remember, when the fertilized egg is trying to attach to the uterus, the woman should still be able to discontinue the pregnancy…


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